03-27-2014 STAR-K Presents Rabbi Moshe Heinemann Shlita discussing Mechiras Chometz Shtaros

my name is sv goldberg and i'm proud to welcome you to the pre-pesach webinar in conjunction between star k and israel and the young israel council of rabbis we're pleased starkey is pleased to have many programs together with young israel programs for abundant for consumers and we want to extend especially yashikaya tour of benjamin hammer who we uh we worked with him to produce this this webinar and we have a wonderful relationship heinemann schlitte really doesn't need any introduction to those who are watching uh you know him as uh as as a post-sake as the rafa mahshiri of star k as the rov of the argus israel of baltimore and uh the heinemann fields questions from around the world from rabbanim from balabatim uh so really for me to say anything about it is really extraneous but i will tell you one one thing that just came up yesterday that we have in the past certified matzah as 18-minute matzah and when we discovered that that matzah is not really 18 minutes it's really 22 minutes this is not the topic of a monument's discussion but uh it nonetheless is uh it it does have to do with pesach that we discovered that it was a 22 minute really production and behind them and didn't have a problem with the kashus of it because cautious wise comments wise it's okay because they're kneading the dough they're going to keep keep working with it but he felt it wasn't yashras from kosher mishpath that they are calling this 18-minute matzah and really it is 22-minute master and people don't realize that and don't understand that so we removed our certification from that particular product even though obviously a hecture agency has to give certifications that's how we fund the uh the programs but he felt it was not yahseris and he just it wasn't right and we took it off the balubas who was running that heckshare admitted that he also didn't understand 100 it also bothered him but what could he do everybody calls it 18-minute matzah and so he continued with it but uh in rebel heinemann's with his yahshuas and his uh wanting always to be forthright and forthcoming and honest and joshua did not feel that it was appropriate and without further ado just want to present rohingya to give a share on stars from it good afternoon everyone um as you know a yid that has the cause of hummus in his possession he he's over on by rabbi you must say every minute second that he has that traumatic even though that he already was before he's over on and it is not it is forever you could sell the comments to a guy before then the comments are not yours it's only if it belongs to you the um now the question is someone wants to sell whiskey or beer and he doesn't have a liquor license the question is is this considered a valid sale since the government forbids it or not deana malcolm sadina so maybe the cell's invalid so the some cypher says in a tuba that and there's another question the question is there may be some comments which is subject to sales tax in various places and the question is are by if you don't sell if you don't pay the sales tax is the sales of the sale valid or not and even if it is valid but maybe you're going against the law of the land which we're not allowed to do so look some surface says that it's not considered going against the law because the um law considers this sale as a religious exercise doesn't we look at it like a sale because whoever as according to the custom whatever they go is sold to the guy the guy sells it back again after the peso so it's just going through the motions of selling it they don't look at it like a sale you don't need to lick a license for it if there's lick involved and you don't have to pay any sales tax on it they don't look at it like a sale but more than that even if they did look at it like a sale it doesn't affect the validity of the sale because they don't say that if you sell liquor without a liquor license that the sale is not valid they merely say that you're not allowed to sell it without a liquor license they don't say that if you don't pay the sales tax that the sale is not valid they say you're required to pay the sales tax so if it would be looked at as a sale there may be a problem over here of selling something against the law but it will not affect the status of the commits they will be cannot consider hamas because it does belong to the guy you have to sell to the guy before this one is hannah because once the ham says then it's you lose your ownership of it automatically ownership means you can do it whatever you want if you can't even have an enough of it you can't sell it can't do anything with it you lose your own ship and then the sale is not valid so the kids now says that a person should uh not think of the some religious exercise but you have to have a determination of mind that the hum is not yours anymore it belongs to the guy and if he wants to keep it and pay for it so then you have the money the deals for it so then it says and he can do with whatever he wants now the rav who is the of the people that have designated him to sell the comments to the guy the right thing is like it says the makarachayam that they should enumerate what kind of promise they're selling how much they have where the hummus is and how to get it where they get all the key to go in if they want to take the hummus during pesach now the i also think that they should designate what they think the price of the comments is how much it's worth because what kind of a stupid guy would buy something he doesn't know what he's buying he doesn't know where it is how to get there and he doesn't know how much it's worth so what is he doing here so therefore if you if we're serious about this machine it should be something which the guy knows daniels was getting how to get it where it is and um that's how much it's worth now the the customer is that when you sell the comments to the guy so you don't really know the price of the comets because the even though the sellers um the ones who will point to the row they may say what the price is but they may exaggerate the price to make it bigger than it really is if you buy a box of cereal for three dollars once you opened it and so even if you just took one portion or no portion the dramatically is worth maybe 75 cents or something like that can't sell on a regular market no it's going to buy open box so therefore the actual price of it is not so simple to determine what the custom is is we say to the guy like this we're selling these comets it we don't know exactly people who claim it's worth a lot of money or it's worth this amount of money but after passage we will designate three people who are knowledgeable in how to estimate the price of of these hermits and which are we both agree to and they will determine their amount how much you have to pay so if they determine that the crumbs is worth half a million dollars and so then you'll pay the half million dollars the in the meantime you'll pay me uh fifty dollars a hundred dollars as the down payment which is the beginning of the payment and the rest of the money you'll pay me after pesach now of course if the government decides that he wants to sell back to hermits he wouldn't have to sell him anything anymore after he wouldn't have to determine the price after paid support it doesn't make any difference they'll decide how much profit he should make and then whatever whatever it would be worth is really not important because he's going to give him this profit and whatever whatever be worth so the customers that they as i said that they take a down payment which is the beginning of the payment of the whole amount which is unknown at this time even though there's an idea but we don't know exactly but it's important that in this down payment there should be a pruta for every person that the rob is representing so if he has a thousand people who is representing so you need a proof of each one how much is a pluto the pruta um i believe is about 10 cents today even though that the rambam says the fruit is al-qasaf but the ramesha says in the true they can't buy anything for that amount of money so then it is not considered money so there used to be a time where i remember in my younger years that you could weigh yourself in any public place for a penny those days long gone today it costs 25 cents it used to be a time when you can buy two pieces of chocolate or two pieces of bubble gum um in a machine for a penny though you can't get that anymore even the round balls of bubble gum um i don't think you can get anywhere for less than 10 cents and so therefore i would think that 10 cents is the smallest amount which you could buy in something you'd look about by postage stamp for once and but that's just different type of money you if you're fast enough you may be able to pour yourself one um cents worth of gas but it's not done and you it's usually not so you can't be fast enough to pump just once and automatically it will go to much more than that so 10 cents is considered a proto if 10 cents is considered pruta and you have it and you have a thousand people you're representing that means that the deposit has to be at least a hundred dollars that's the amount that the guy has to has to give you as the down payment on this hermits now when you rent them the place for the homeless lives you also need a pruta for each for each transaction and therefore if you're representing a thousand people you need another hundred dollars now the going might not become up with 200 dollars to buy the comments you're allowed to give him a present before the before the machine you say this is yours and you give him a present even though you're not supposed to give a present to a guy for no reason but this is considered for a reason you want to make the comments so therefore it would be permitted the um when a person should not sell his hermits to two rabbanum so as far as you think he'll be a nice fella you sell to this rough and then you want to go to another of either because you want to give him some money or because you don't trust the first rob that he knows how to sell it properly or whatever reason because when you start the second draft there is a question brought down in um one of the in the prior slider that may be charles and choose free assad that maybe when you scope the second row of your beam avatar the the permission you gave to the first route to be ashley and there's another question that in the there's a date on the star but it's not clear at what time of the day that this hummus was sold and since it's not clear sometimes it's not clear at what time it was sold and these two rabbanum sold into two gayim if the two guys each claimed that they bought the hermits and they would go to a president or to court they wouldn't be known who was the one who really bought it so if it's not known neither of them can claim it's the moment shameless typhoon and in such a case um the it would stay with the comments so therefore you should pick the route that you want to sell it to and sell to him and no one else the um if the jews not in his house and he forgot to sell his comments and you're his rav and you want to do him a favor and sell his honors for him can you do that because we have a cloud with zach and adam schleiber since it's a ban for him he's a from year he wants to sell comments him and you therefore you could do it even though that he doesn't know about it or maybe the only say he's adam you get you gave him something but over here zuckermay adam you're selling something belongs to him maybe you don't say zach and mate adam schleiber so i heard from her of asham he was very koshvarav and he asked this question to rav gusman and rob guzman told him name of him that you can do that so actually the will have a hugs about that the uh joseph yitzchak is mako the um and the duracam also maker the liberal molecules the factory kindness and there's other quran that will speak about this question but you could do them so everyone should sign his name on the hasha in which it was written that he appoints the rov to represent him to sell his comments to whoever the robb wants to sell to and he should write what his promise is how much it's worth the to his opinion and that he gives rashus to the guy that bought it to go in and take the comments and um where the where if he's not home how he can get access to the key now the rov makes another star mahira he's selling it to the guy and now there's a problem there's the stahar shah that means that the star which the yid gave to the to the um to the rove that he has the power of attorney to sell muhammad and then this is now each one by itself doesn't mean anything because the starshot just says they give them permission there's no it's not a star the hero doesn't say who gave them the permission so the meaning was that you used to sew them together or what i do is i usually put all the stirrers and stuff in a box and i take the box shut and i tape this onto the box and then i give them all together one time in front of adam to the guy so because they should all be considered like one you're not allowed to tell the guy to say that i'm going to i'm selling to now but i'm going to buy it back after pesach because that's like a time the mashira and then there's only this man it's only a temporary mushroom it's not a kenyan as it says in the run in the dharm and it would not be a valid sale you're not allowed to tell the guy that he is required to sell back to you for the same reason but the you are allowed to tell the guy that it's your intention to buy back from him you can tell from the very beginning it's your intention by back as long as he understands that he's under no obligation to sell back if he doesn't want and that you the rob are not under no obligation to buy back from him um after pesach either so the the right thing to write in the hasha which the star which the people give to the rav and in the that he's all the khamers which is made with the five types of grain he's selling kidneys you don't have to sell and then he sells them teruva's it's not just hummus and he also sells them things that have been cooked together with comets even though the hummus has been removed and what is comets so if you say anything's made out of five types of grain that is not uh that's dangerous because if you're selling anything that's made out of five times a grain then the matzah is sold also it's also made with five types of grain and if you don't own the matzah the raj says you have to have shelly on the mount size of yours and so you wouldn't be as the misa matzah so what you can write is the um everything's made out of five types of grain which aid is now allowed to own during the um but who decides what who did if you allow to only know that what's considered homosexual it's not considered hummus so i spoke to a lawyer that it's proper to write down a place that describes it like the mission of buru that anything bishop says is hummus i'm selling you anything the mishna bruce says that we know how to have is is in including the sale and that helps on the dean according to also now it's my opinion which i know that you may disagree with it that the style you make with a guy should be in a language which as i understand you ate the star in hebrews like you make the star in greek and the guy agrees yes yes he knows his head doesn't know what he's talking about what kind of style is that what kind of agreement is that so therefore there should be a language he understands and that he can deal with that um okay so the minute is to rent to the guy the place where the comments is so you can say the closet it's a room you can say that basement whatever when wherever you want to put the comments you don't have to sell some sticker dishes because there's no mamashas or hummus there there's just the time you know there's nobody rabbi masa on time if as long as they're clean and you don't have to sell kidneys you're allowed to actually benefit from kittens and you want to use the oil to light sharpest candles you want to use um corn oil there's no problem with that the you just sell the hummus if he doesn't have hummus but just has um quite some khashoggis let's say that you have a baking pan but it's too much bother for the person to clean them not going to use them on pesach but they may have hummus which is baked onto it which is not ashes so then um if you if that's all you're selling just these baking pans or pots which is hard to clean so i'm very misopic whether it's shy to sell that because if that's all you're selling it is not worth anything the nokian cassette which could be if it has no value that clean cancer cannot work for it and besides that which person is ever going to want to buy this but if you sell the whole pan together with the homes that's on it so that's fine you can do that so but if you do that when after pesach when you want to use it again you would have to number one table it without a broker that's number one and number two you're gonna have to clear it before you table it because um between what's on it and the kaylee itself now you don't have to clean that as much as you do for pesach because for pesach you um it doesn't help you know mukbang if you're not mapping on it um it's it's not considered so that is something which is possible to do okay um so if they do if they want to sell a pan then you have to write in the with the guy and this that you're giving your shirts to sell other things which are together well to what she wants to sell together with the comments now how do you sound the place for the hummuses you have the hummus in a room but we have a if you're renting and you have a clause in your rental agreement you know it's a sublet so now you're subletting it to a guy so basically it's not a problem number one and this is um in this in the true smart and um some sofa that you know the guy probably won't come in so it's not the government doesn't look at it like subletting even though he has wishes to go in but besides that i think that the whole problem of the no sublet clause is only that you can't let someone come there to live there but you're not giving him permission to live there you're renting it to him to keep his things there and the clip is hummus there and if you want to put something else there you can put it too because it's only because keep his comments then you really are benefiting from the comments that you're getting money from subletting something which is just for hummus so you have to leave the other things there also but it doesn't you can't live there and on that that's it is not included in this of that course so if the one who owns the home is winter just throw for pesach or to europe so you have to sell his comments before you sell everyone else's comments because usually you wait until after you can't eat it anymore to sell it because as long as if you can't sell it and then the person will eat it afterwards and uh be over this exhaler and making a broccoli because ancient moroccan knights or whatever so you want to sell only in this man that it can be still mutabhana now by that time it's already been for quite six seven hours already um pesach passed the time the inaudible and uh in europe also will be after this month so therefore you have to sell it earlier if someone's going to los angeles for pesach then you've got the other problem when you buy back the comments and of course everyone wants you to buy back the comments immediately after pesach everyone's starving for hamas haven't been able to for eight days so you want to buy it back right away so now the uh but if if they're going to be in la it still pays off for them and it comes out that you're buying backups when by them it is still um pesach so they're going to have some pesach now do you go after the owner after the muhammad's this is a question which is dealt with the true from the undergardev and other acronym and say well michael both ways because there is no clear answer to this question now someone goes to eric israel and he sells his hummus analysis role he's got another problem he knows israel they only have seven days of junta so the rob is going to buy back after seven days but you for you yes from your tibet days so then you go to tell the rove either way what happens you're supposed to tell the brothers you take care of the problem how does rob take care of the problem so one way is that the rob should buy the comments for himself and then he owns it and he'll sell it but that doesn't help if the rub doesn't sell real comments and the one who's he's who's asking the cell does so real hummus and besides that why should the raw want to get into problems he has no problems of his own does he need the problems of someone else's comments so the one way to do it is to make an early makhira the night before for people who have their hummus now so all going to our chisel we're going to be in ssr after paint style for people in l.a i have learned a trick from um what he did like this i might say he said to the guy uh he phoned the guy he told the guy phone me so the guy he spoke on the telephone he said you know i sold the khan for pesach um and now i want you to i'd like to buy it back so the question is fine so he said let's go back tomorrow together tomorrow morning and we'll and we'll complete the sale that means you're going to give the money so for his prophet so the guy says okay so then you say to the guy okay look if we're gonna i'm gonna buy it back for you anyway tomorrow morning do you give us permission to use it already now tonight so the guy says yes okay so now what happens is it really belongs to the guy but you have permission to use it so the people who are in l.a they don't they they didn't get the transport back yet if and you and people are here they are the ones they could use it and so therefore you get out of the problem also should be written in the in the star that if one of the so you're selling for a thousand people if one of them is going to be invalid because he doesn't have any comments or for whatever reason he sold to another of and it's not going to be valid it should not affect the sale of the others um so that is um important now actually the uh hummus is sold in six ways one is that you see that you give over the star in front of two adam and then two adams sign it two witnesses and you get in front of them and the guy should understand that when he has the star not only is he being kind of with the star being kind of the harm it's also been kind of the rental agreement that you have to rent the place to where the comments is second thing is with kasif that um or maybe it's the first thing the money that she gives you should you become your kind of the chemist and the money gives you for the separately for the um for the serious malcolm it should be um you right in the start excuse malcolm starts and this time until sometime after pesach where's after peter even in los angeles and um so that there should have been a question that the hummus is industrious of the guy so those are the two ways how you kind of promise now besides that you should and you tell the guy that there are different ways how to be kinder and if this one doesn't help the other one should help and the third way is through agav that since she's kinda the which helps for sure on the markham so then so the kind of the matatum agav and even though that um so you kind of argue or not is not so simple but some say it does help the third way the fourth way is with kenyaksa but the difference is by agav you don't need seburum it doesn't have to be in it in the place khat says only if it's in in the place and the word says according to one mandarama and shlikaz doesn't help by a guy so it doesn't not for sure that it helps the other one is the king of suda the guy should give you something so let's say his watch he gives you the watch and you is a badass system and you're giving back and change all the comments that people are giving you then of course you give back the watch the guy right away and the sixth way is through stunter that means whatever the whatever the meaning is that that closes the deal you shake hands with a guy on the deal and then it's his comments he takes all the staris with him wherever he wants and the deal is is over now if the guy is a woman so then how do you wish i could handle a woman so you get your wife to shake the hand for you um it's considered like you shook it doesn't matter who shakes it now of course you have to make sure that he's a guy um so if he is uh muksik to be a guy in the community so then you can assume that he's a guy if jesus that he's a guy so then that's also a good way how to to assume that he's a guy and that's how it would work i want to thank everyone for listening to me thank you and have a good yantoff