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01-28-2015 Stom Weather And Halacha
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Rabbi Zvi Goldberg, Kashrus Administrator, discusses the halachic implications of weather issues that may arise (i.e., snow during Shabbos, etc.). Guest speaker is Rabbi Mordechai Frankel, Director of the STAR-K's Institute of Halacha.
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Auto-generated transcript. Not time-synced to the video.
today is Rabbi M Franco thank you for
joining us RAB Franco thank you for
inviting me and I'm Rabbi Goldberg we're
pleased to have you back for another
edition of our webinar held the last
Wednesday of every month at noon
Eastern the phone number if you have
trouble with the with the web it's
51203 21889
51203 pass Cod
2020 and um we're we're hosted on click
webinar site it's learn
kosher.com
koser and uh we're very pleased that you
could join us for this Edition we do
have a a chat screen which I'm going
to uh make a little larger
here so that you can uh you can chat
with us ask your questions and if we
could just start with a couple of people
just chatting that you can hear
us
um I see Rick and Columbus is with
us um if you can hear us and see us that
would be great okay so thanks very
much thanks for for for responding Gary
and Sarah and Arya and Amy and Joe okay
so let's begin Rabbi Frankl we are
speaking about storm weather severe
weather which is um
hitting some of the East Coast the nor
Easter in New York they have a little
bit of a of a couple inches it wasn't as
bad as it was predicted but in um in
Maine everything has AIC ramifications
including bad weather right everything
is is a uh is something to talk about uh
prepare yourself I mean who knows what's
going to be I mean we have we've had
really we have had feet of snow I mean
here in Baltimore the winter is not over
yet right right exactly
um um I guess you're if you're in
California you don't really have to
worry about the snow but you might want
to know this anyway just for your
edification and uh help out your your uh
poor uh you know Eastern relatives um
okay so let's begin R
Franco uh we had a couple of questions
and we had some things we want to talk
about let's talk about chabas let let's
focus a little bit on chabas
issues chabas is when in particular
where there are issues issues so what to
do when it's snowing right so you have
let's start start with this uh you have
uh it snowed uh Friday night and you
have uh ice and snow on your walk so
what can you do about it can you salt it
um uh can you shovel it what what what's
what's the story so the first question
is is can you actually walk in snow um
the answer is of course yes yes a person
is allowed to walk in snow on shabas
there's a story the story about the
people who went on each other's bags and
then were still surprised when they
found Footprints but um when is allowed
to walk in snow even that story was on
chabis is that the way you do I I heard
that story during the week okay so um um
there is a question though that
sometimes when you step on snow you're
going to cause it to melt and how about
you you have your foot your footprint
you let's say you have the word uh you
know I don't know Nik Nike whatever on
your on the bottom of your foot right
you're riding on the snow right so this
is another issue so again the f one
issue the simple issue first basic issue
is maybe you're causing snow to melt
that's not a
problem even though there is such a
concept as not having solids melt on
shabas and not causing solids to melt
but when it comes to snow it doesn't
apply they they're abundant enough if it
that and it's of course it's permitted
to all no however when when a person has
designs on the bottom of their shoe or
or writing on the bottom of their shoe
so then there is this question that the
that the image gets impressed in the
snow and one of them and chabas is
writing includes in writing is drawing a
picture so that there is this potential
question is the person allowed to do
that when a person's writing in the snow
so the the answer the answer is that um
that there are number of reasons to be
lenient over here firstly the snow is
not going to last and therefore the
writing is not a permanent type of
writing and secondly it's not your
intent and it's not going to last how
long it depends where you are that's
true last if you're in a cold area could
last that's true a few months that's
true it thought well but it's not going
to be forever right even if even if the
snow doesn't go away usually the print
will not last that long okay fair enough
and the other the other fact is that
that's not your intent over here and
even though generally on shab something
which is not your intent is still
forbidden if it's a certainty but um
that that that at least mitigates it
that is not a not a prohibition anymore
it would be a ridic prohibition and
again it's something which is not long
lasting and also on doing it's not the
usual way of writing it's not normal to
write with to write by stamping on
things so therefore there are multiple
reasons to say that this that that that
multiple
factors um which which which would tend
how about if I wanted to do it on
purpose and I stop look look ma Nike
Nike Nike yes that that a person should
not do you should not do should not do
you should just not pay attention to but
other than that the assumption is that
it's a it's a it's a non-permanent
writing which you're doing in an unusual
way without any intent and without any
benefit from it and such we're not
worried about that but do the purpose
person should avoid how about getting
rid of the snow how do I get rid of the
snow right so so um getting rid of the
snow this is uh especially on shabas one
can't drive so when one's walking one
wants to walk to sh and the snow with
the snow in the path what can one do so
there are number of issues the number of
possible Poss possible uh possible
things that a person might want to do
the the the first one thing that a
person might want to do is to Spread
spread salt on the um on the on the path
out of their house so that at least
that'll help the snow melt and it'll
help people not slip so yes that's a
person a person can do that on shabas if
they need to obviously if there's no aof
and there's an issue of carrying then
they're going to have a problem if
they're carrying the salt but if a
person lives in a lives in a place where
which has an A or if their house and
their front front areas in enclosed in
such a way that they can carry so then
they would be allowed to um to if they
hav if they haven't got an A which is an
enclosure which you mentioned allows you
to carry uh I would think they can ask a
non-jew to do that for this purpose
right if they can get somebody if they
have a neighbor or somebody they can ask
them to do that they could do that if if
necessary if if it's if it's if it's um
if they if they feel it's necessary for
the so that they can walk then they
could ask a NAU to do it yes so that
that's that's one thing that's the the
the the spreading of the salt and the
question which is not so simple is
shoveling I shoveling the snow we
actually not only just spread salt in it
but you actually take a shovel and you
dig and you dig out the snow so that's
qu that's that's it's not it's really
not so clear it's questionable the the
the among the concerns one of the
concerns that the that the the later uh
later decide is mention is that does
this issue on sh person is not me to do
something which is a tremendous amount
of work do is not meant to do heavy
exercise on shabas so Shing slow is
something which um which which involves
a lot of exertion and um and therefore
that that's at least is one good reason
why it's problematic there are different
opinions a person should person person
could ask their own personal Rabbi and
um it's not it's not universally agreed
upon but uh but there are certainly
reasons to be to be to be stringent and
say that one shouldn't do it because
one's doing um one's doing hard work on
chabas which is uh which is which is is
problematic and how how about if it's
not that difficult if it's just a little
bit it's powdery kind of a person can
suddenly kick it with their feet that's
no problem a person can you know that
that's not an issue that's not exertion
um using a shovel is really more of an
exertive activity but just kicking with
one's feet is fine um again if if if a
person lives in a in an area where one
cannot carry so obviously shoveling is a
problem because you have to carry the
shovel kicking the snow that's perhaps
not not such a such a big deal
so is asking which is better to spread
salt or to spread
sand um they're they're both fine
spreading salt is better there are more
halakic issues with spreading sand um
because you're you're putting it out on
a on a pathway pathway especially
especially if it's a dirt pathway not
but even if even if it's even if it's
not there are more halic issues it is
permissible though um if the person
needs to spread stand um if they don't
have salt but if a person has the choice
salt would be the better option there's
also also is asking would it be
permitted to ask a non-jew to to to
shovel the snow yes I guess in the case
of of of danger people might people
might trip right yes person could do
that not just because I want to have it
convenient but right if it's necessary a
person should do that also should be
should I should be I should mention that
uh obviously if there's some urgent
situation if a person's a member of ATA
and they have to go and save people's
lives so then obviously that that that
that's that's a whole different story um
asku yes um again we try not to have
non-js working on our property on shabas
so this isn't really work um if it's
necessary then um if would be something
that that there there are leniencies
that even a Jew could do so to ask a
non-w to do it would think I think that
that would be okay think so too um I
would agree with that any issue Scott is
asking any issue of using an ice Chopper
yes that's a good question breaking ice
so um um um everyone agrees that if a
person has let's say a um a cup of water
which froze over on the top everyone
agrees one can break the ice on the cup
of water that's that's certainly fine
the discussion in the in the discussion
which the in in centers more around ice
which is attached to the ground the you
know something which uh if you have from
a person's roof one has an icicle
hanging or any ice which is attached to
the ground so breaking it off the the
there are those who consider that um
something is attached to the ground is
considered like part of a building
um part of a structure and and um
breaking a structure could potentially
be a problem there are those who are who
have who who are who are concerned about
that however most uh most uh most most
people feel that that's not a problem it
does not apply it is not considered a
structure it's not considered a building
so a person should not do it if there's
no need because there are those who are
stringent but if a person has has a need
then um then it's fine to do that be
sort of like the same rule as as
shoveling the snow right you should try
this is better than shoveling better
than shoveling why it's not hard because
this um this over here um by breaking
ice most most people feel that it's it's
it's perfectly permitted there's no
there's no issue of hard work over here
I see um
okay says Municipal ordinances sometimes
require cleaning the sidewalk I remember
when I was growing up in um in Brooklyn
I think there was a law you had to clear
your sidewalk within four hours after
the snow stopped but yet I remember that
on CH if it snowed on CH is we didn't uh
we didn't do anything and you know we
live to tell a tale by the time they
send you the warning it's not JIS
anymore uh so I don't know Baltimore I
don't think there is any they're not
that strict about in Baltimore maybe
they should be but there's no there's no
law that requires you there is a concern
I me potentially of litigation if
somebody walked on your sidewalk and
tripped and sued you but again if a
person's really concerned about that
they could they could have a non sh for
them do something for them okay I just
want to reiterate we're speaking here
with Rabbi M Frankl who is the director
of the H Institute at star k ra Frankl
answers questions from all over the
world about all all different topics you
can email uh what's the email again is
it stark. RG or you can call us at 410
484 4110 that's aside from all the kis
questions that uh that we do answer uh
we're happy to take your questions on
any topic um yeah maybe just just stand
in one more thing about snow one more
problem which is again uh debatable is
that there are the there are things on
sh M things are things one's not meant
to move on chabas so there is some
discussion whether or not snow it falls
under that category uh there are those
who are lenient and say that it's not a
problem but Rin was quoted as saying
that nowadays at least snow is M so
that's another problem with moving it
shoveling it um all those issues is that
it could well be although it is the
eatable but it could well be that snow
is considered M which would be another
problem with moving it um certainly
building a building a snowman person
should not do uh firstly again snow May
well be M and so and also building a
building a structure building an image
is like drawing a picture a person
shouldn't do that even making a snowball
um once again compressing the snow into
a shape right that's something which a
person should not do shabas so no
snowball fights in shabas you have to
wait till multi shabas for that okay AR
is asking a very relevant question uh is
it okay to knock large icicles hanging
from Frozen gutters that may either fall
or weigh down and destroy the gutters
that's if you have you know the the snow
melts a little bit and refreezes and
melts and refreezes so I think I think
the answer is is that a person shouldn't
do it if there's no reason at all but if
they feel some reason then yes they
could do that if they if they're
concerned about they're concerned that
it'll uh damage their property then they
would be allowed to do that MH okay
that's a that's uh I guess if it's going
to destroy his gutters he feels that
there's there is a there is an issue
okay let's move on to uh it's it's
you're in a place where there is an AR
again this enclosure which allows you to
carry and because of the severe weather
you're not sure if it's still up so what
are the parameters in trying to figure
out if you're allowed to carry or not
allowed to carry now that there's this
great big storm so that's a difficult
question to answer because it would
veryy depending on um the a some a
structures are built in a very um solid
way um not likely to break some of them
are more flimsy you could use a
telephone wire you could use a piece of
string a telephone wire is more sturdy
than a piece of string so it may well
depend on your a um person has to um
generally well constructed aivs which
are done by you know professionally well
constructed AES are pretty strong and
they don't just they don't break as
easily as people uh think it doesn't
just uh they don't just even if it's
windy they won't just break if there's a
heavy accumulation of ice and snow then
um so then the weight can even telephone
wires you know if there's weight there's
heavy weights that can cause things to
break so that's that that might be a
concern again um every a of the has when
shabas comes in we we assume that the a
of this checked before shabas comes in
shortly before shabas comes in there
should be somebody who checks it and and
can ascertain that it is it's kosher at
the beginning of shabas so then it has
the has the status it has the Kaka the
principal principle is that the way
things are we assume that January they
continue that so it has this principle
of kazak which says that it was kosher
we assume it remains kosher again if
there if the the inclement weather is so
so severe that um that it's it's it's
it's it's it's clear that there's a very
there's a lot there's a clear large
likelihood that the AR would not was not
is not up that the person should be
prudent and should not carry but um but
hopefully if the a is well constructed
it should be able to survive the regular
storms only major storms um major
hurricanes um you know would would uh
with would potentially affect the a so
um and so it' be a good idea to check if
there is any sort of bad weather even if
a person doesn't normally call or check
the a of hotline status on a day on a on
a Friday that has had bad weather that
would be absolutely absolutely I think
it's quite common that they announce it
in yeah I was thinking that what three
is see the two three think alike because
this three is asking what happens if due
to the storm the a could not be checked
on Friday right not because if the
snow's coming down uh they're not
sending out those buckets you know to
check to make sure that the AR is up or
whatever they need to do if it's such a
major storm that the roads are
impassable so then again it really but
it was checked the previous right right
it really is it's really going to depend
on the people who built the a the people
are involved in the A and they they have
they they they're the ones who have
knowledge of the stess of the a one
would have to ask them if if if they if
they if they feel that the a can is is
is uh good chance they can withstand
this they think it's most likely that
it's still intact so then a person
doesn't have to assume the worst we
don't have to assume it's broken you as
you said it has a status last shabis of
being of being up I can generally assume
it's up but if the people of tell us
tell us that they don't think it's up
then that thing you have a problem
that's a very good point okay um let's
let's move on to some more uh shabus
issues maybe just by the you know there
is this question that number of times
this has happened that uh people aren't
sure whether AR is up and or they they
think it's up and they're carrying and
then word gets out some some
enterprising person actually walked over
to look at it and saw that it was broken
so then um there's this question should
one tell other people should one not
tell other people um generally um um if
if uh most people one we can assume
would want to know so to tell a person
that the AR is down if there something
they would want to know because they
don't want to carry on shabas so then
you're doing them a favor by telling
them on the other hand if let's say you
does a person who's in the middle of
weeding their baby in a carriage and
they're in the middle of the streets and
you tell them the a is down and then
they're going to be stuck and what are
they going to do with their baby so then
um so then under those under under under
limited circumstances but if it's if
it's if it's uh if it would be very
difficult for them so then the fact is
that right now they don't know so what
they're doing is unknown to them that
they're doing anything problematic one
can allow them to finish up to go
somewhere safer before one tells them
but generally generally one would assume
that people want to know one should tell
on the other hand the recipients of news
sometimes I've seen this happen there
are places that word gets around the AR
is down and it's a false rumor person
doesn't have to believe every rumor they
hear they should make sure that they
hear from reliable people uh you know
one person says maybe and the next
person s is certainty uh we know have
this uh we we know we person has verify
that the facts are true mhm okay um so
let's talk a little bit about some some
damage that could happen to one's house
on on a during a storm uh flooding in
house let's talk a little bit about that
right uh God forbid you come and you see
that your basement is starting to get
full of water um you know there that's
very very aggravating especially if it's
chabas and you can't really uh do
anything about it so what what are the
possible um ways that is there any way
that you could deal with this on Chavis
yes so the the the answer may depend on
the severity of the problem um if a
person has just a leak um and I could
and a person a small leak a person can
put a bucket bucket under it to catch
the water so then that that's that a
person can do as long as the water which
comes into the bucket is something which
they could use to wash they could use it
to wash yourself if it's um if it's um
if it's so dirty that it's not so
then right so then it's m even then the
if a person has if it's if it's if it's
there are those who are lenient and if a
person has a trem has a big need um
strong needs then uh then they could be
lant even then but um generally
generally if there's no strong need they
shouldn't do it if the water is so dirty
that they can't use it to wash but if
it's U cleaner than that then it's fine
to do that certainly so that's when a
person has a small has a small um small
problem then the the the large problem
is when a person gets a flood and they
need need a pump to um to pump out their
water so a person can't really turn on a
pump on chabas but under s such
circumstances where there necessity
obviously to save a person's basement
that's that'll be Financial loss of here
person can ask a nonu to come and turn
and turn on their pump and um and have
the LA to do it for them what about uh
bailing it out themselves that would be
a that would be right so again big job
that would be a big job it would be
again
um there on the other hand there's a
tremendous moner loss potentially over
here again the ideal thing would be to
try and have a non do something and put
on a pump
um David says sometimes it could be a
sewer backup which could be poisonous
well then I think you just want to stay
away from it and not really get involved
and just call call call a an expert
after shabas and I think this is an
important point to not to which he's
which he's pointing out is that
sometimes in bad weather the situations
are could be potential to be dangerous
um so then again obviously I think
everyone is familiar with this if
there's any potential possibility of any
danger to life then then that would
supersede all the laws of shabas so yes
if there's any down power lines I mean
obviously you know person would you know
do whatever you need to do you have to
walk to SCH I you know there's this does
I mean it just happened here in
Baltimore very recently it wasn't a
shabas but this this uh you know very
very tragic event that happened just in
the last few weeks about this uh this uh
this this Jewish person who was coming
to a to a to a conference over here and
the car sked and uh and um you know
unfortunate results um a person um on
Shas we not perhaps we're not driving
we're walking but again it came
dangerous many many years ago in
Baltimore this is going back many years
but there was a person who was walking
to shore with his child and it was a
hurricane and it knocked down a tree and
the tree fell on the child and again
very unfortunate results so um you know
if a person shouldn't do that if a
person person should a person we we want
to go to sh even when it's difficult we
try to go to sh a suddenly person
shouldn't do anything which is which is
dangerous I had U I found a uh a a pump
which is mechanical and works on water
pressure I forget the the exact name of
it um I guess if anybody's interested
they can contact us and we'll I'll get
it but um basically the way that it
worked was one part you would put it in
the in in the water and the other part
would attach to your your your uh a
garden hose and when you turn on the the
hose uh it would suck out the the
pressure would suck out your the water
that it was drawing from so I forget
there's a certain principle that it
works based on that and
um we discussed it previously if you
would set that let's say you were afraid
that you might get flooded and you would
set the whole thing up before shabas and
on chabas all you have to do was turn on
your water right and if there was a
flood and you you have the water going
somewhere into a whatever into your
drain or something and you're not really
doing anything you just sucking up water
and it's going into the drain right
that's true when I said that a pump's a
problem a mechanical pump would not be
the same most pumps okay says Sarah says
she thinks it's called a beri pump if
I'm pronouncing it right siphon pump
what about a su pump well a sum pump is
electrical yeah so that has the problems
that we previously mechanical pump would
not have that issue yes that that one
could do can you ask a nonu to call can
you ask a nonu to call a nonu on chabis
to fix the sewer backup so have one have
either a nonu do it or have a nonu ask
another nonu to do it that's that's not
so simple to it would depend on the
circumstances yeah okay so that that's
not so easy
um uh okay so let's say let's take
another
scenario uh that the power is out on on
all these questions seem to do with
shabas that's the most I we we were
thinking about it like what kind of
questions could you have uh we did have
we did have just veering away for a
second we did have a question uh if if
if the if the weather is so bad um what
what are your o ations even during the
week to go to DAV in a Sho to pray with
a with a a quum u you know what what are
your obligations can I stay home just
because it's you know the weather is bad
or should I stay home must I stay home
right as you said this is this is the
question which is going to come up any
day of the week this is not shabs
related um very common question um going
to SCH over here it's a nice thing to go
to sh i' would like to do it um and um
you know should I or shouldn't I so
again just to reiterate what I already
said if there's any potential danger a
person should not do that um it's the
examples that in person's not person is
not obligated to go to sh at night if
they have to walk through dangerous
neighborhoods so the same thing is true
over here if you have to walk on
dangerous streets that danger because of
potential slipping so then um again
depending on the person's health and
ability to manage uh the the the terrain
of snow persons can do it they can can
do it but if a person's older or more
more concerned so then they shouldn't do
anything which might which might hurt
them where they might slip and uh and
hurt themselves then a person should not
do it um sometimes people if they have
that they try to make a minion on the
Block you can have can your neighbors
come to your house right you may have a
Torah to read from you may not but uh
you try to do the best you can now
there's another issue which is let's say
I could get to SCH but it would mean um
a tremendous amount of work um I could
do it I'd have to sh right I'd have to
shovel my way through the snow to get to
sh I could do it but it's R it would
take me a long time so how much how to
what extent is the person expected to
exert themselves to get to sh so in um
is generally brought that um if a person
is in their house and how much and they
want to they they would like there
there's a there's a minion taking place
there a sh which has a quarum how far do
they have to travel how how much how
long do they have have to travel in
order to uh to to make the effort to get
there so generally the the the is that
if a person's in their house then um up
to 18 minutes 18 minutes is the time
that a person if if if the drive is an
18-minute drive or less then person
should make it if it's beyond that then
a
person it's not obligated obviously
if it's it's still like if there's no if
there's no danger involved then it's a
good thing it's a it's a it's it's a
Pious thing toh to to make the extra
effort but not obligated to make to to
to do something which is to take a walk
which is going to take more than 180
minutes um even if the included within
that if a person's going to have to if
the walk itself if the the sh might be
within 18 minutes walk but the problem
is that uh to get that I have to unsh I
have to unsh my car and uh and that that
that's also going to take a lot of time
that's going to take a lot of effort so
again it's that's not as as simple
because ultimately once I get my car and
shovel drive itself is less than 18
minutes
um so there a person should make more of
an effort but the principle is still
true that if it's a tremendous amount of
effort than a person it's very difficult
to give an exact uh rule because it
depends on the person depends on the
condition of the person their heart you
know what what what can they do so each
person is is indiv I remember there was
not too long ago a few years ago there
was a very very severe storm here
snowstorm on shabas if we had a few feet
of snow and so um there's there's a a
Shool here that starts at uh at 9:00
a.m. near my house so I I treed all the
way there it was very it was very
difficult a Tre there was about a 10
it's normally about a 10 minute walk but
this probably took me about 20 30
minutes um and I got there and I tried
to go to the the front door and it was
locked so I so I figured there's that's
it there's no minion but but um you know
I'll go to my I'll go to a different Jew
and just and just see where they're up
to even though I knew they started
earlier so I went to that other Sho and
they were almost they were way through
the the the doing and they said no that
that first Sho you went to is open you
got to go to the right door so I so I
Trek Back to the other Shool the whole
thing took me about an hour to get the
Sho I was very tired but I was uh you
know we persevered and thank God uh
we're able able to do it person gets
reward for you know that that was this
concept brought that person has two shs
available you should go to the further
further sh get R I should also think
it's important to point out that if
can't go to sh and they're doing at home
so they're praying by themselves so um
if they can arrange it that they're
going to be praying their
the which is the you know the at the
same time that they're doing it in the
in the sh which they're govering so even
if they they're not actually present
physically but if it's at the same time
that's also significance that that at
least they're with the or so to they
with the they with the they with the
quum if not in person but at least in
spirit that they're praying at the same
time that something significance so a
person who's not able to make it should
try that applies any day of the week the
person doesn't go to sh but his his his
minion doin at a certain time he should
even in good weather for whatever reason
the person is not well he can't he can't
he's sick you know he should if he's
going to he should does there's an
advantage and it's you know Hally
encouraged to to to to to pray at the
same time that they praying in the
synagogue so we're here at our starc's
monthly webinar we're speaking with RAB
Franco the director of the H Institute
at Star also the assistant Rabbi the
good of Baltimore uh if you have any
questions that haven't been answered you
can email them directly to him at
um H
star.org or if you have general
questions you can email us at info@
stark. org or call us for 484
4110 um we did get a question uh prior
to the show about what happens if if you
miss the sh misses the the the reading
of the Torah for that week what do they
how did did they make it up not that I
didn't go to sh but the sh had a carea
then obviously there's not much that you
can do but what if the the entire Sho
did not have a minion that week is there
any way to make it yes then they should
make it up the next week they would next
week they would read the the the portion
of the Torah that they missed and the
weekly portion um even if the sh did
have it if there were 10 people who were
not able to make it so they could um if
they want they could make their own
Quorum um if they're able to to do it
and then also to read the two the two
readings the one of last week the one of
this week um there's some discussion if
you have less than 10 people if you have
six people can you get four people who
already heard it and make a quum and
then do that that's that maybe debatable
but if you have 10 people who who who
didn't hear it they can they if they can
they can make their own make their own
make they make their own Minion
basically make their own Minion and soly
if you have a a whole minion which
didn't make it then they should make it
up yeah and but that doesn't hold true
if you missed on a if they missed on
Monday or Thursday for some reason if if
the Sho was closed on a Monday morning
and they didn't read the Torah then they
don't they don't make it up any that you
know everything that we read on Monday
anyway right okay um so let's get back
to we have a couple more minutes Frank
let's get back to some more of these
questions
um uh let's say you have a a power
outage on on chabis getting back to the
chabas questions uh you have a power
outage on chabis and uh your chent PO uh
which was which was off
all all of a sudden comes back on with
with the joint in it with where the
power comes on and now it starts cooking
so what are the issues involved there
besides for the the health issues which
we'll leave at for the food safety
discussion because if it was out of
power maybe it's spoiled but that's you
know we're assuming that you're able to
tell whether or not it is or it isn't um
let's deal with the H issues right so
there are two potential halic issues one
issue is again that the power went out
so then when the power goes on it means
that there's somebody somewhere well
possibly it could be it's all
computerized but it's quite possible
there's somebody somewhere who's uh
who's uh turning back on who's fixed it
who's turning it back on so this person
is causing this um causing your um your
um your your um your heat to come back
on your cck part to start working again
so there is there is an issue of not
meant to have a nonu doing something for
you on shabas um but in this case there
would not be a problem because he's not
doing it for you he's doing it for all
the people who he Services um and he's
just doing his job um so we wouldn't
look at it as the nju is turning on the
turning on the power for you or turning
on the the the oven the stove top the
cckb for you so therefore that would not
be an issue he's doing because that's
what he's legally required to do right
right he's doing right he's just doing
his job then um you know and you know um
um then um and um you know
then um then there the other potenti the
other potential issue would be that a
person's not meant to have food cooked
by an N jeu there's there's this concept
of bish that we want food to be cooked
by a Jew so one could look at it that
even if the the the non Jews turn the
flame back on even if it's not a shabas
problem maybe it's just a problem uh
nothing to do with shabas maybe it's a
problem because the N just cooking for
you so generally that's not an issue for
a number of reasons firstly um it only
applies to food which is is um an
inedible raw and inedible if something's
already halfway cooked so and then the
nju finishes the cooking process so then
that's not a problem so generally most
people when they have chant um their
chant is not raw when Chas comes in
that's problematic it's meant to be
halfway cooked before shabas comes in so
therefore for anyway for shabas reasons
that CH is going to be halfway cooked so
then when the NRE turns back and turns
the flame on that's not going to be
considered bishal cooking because it's
already cooked at the state that it's
edible uh when I say halfway we measure
it in time however long it would take
for the food to be fully ready half of
that is halfway um there's also another
reason why it's not a problem over here
because the nju is turning on the flame
is turning on the power he doesn't know
anything about your crck parts your
flame he doesn't have any intent he's
not he doesn't even know you exist so
one wouldn't necess even if the food was
raw one wouldn't necessarily look at it
as that he's as that he's uh as that
he's uh he's he's doing the cooking over
here it just kind of happens by itself
he just turns on the power for whoever
needs it and then the then that that
just causes your C to start going on so
that would be another reason why it
would not be a problem but as I said on
shabas even if we would not accept that
you shabas it's not a problem because
the food is generally already cooked or
at least halfway cooked preferably fully
cooked before chabas comes in that in
future before it goes before Shas comes
in okay so basically that's not going to
be that's not going to be an issue right
okay uh we do have one more uh one more
question here uh what about generator on
Chavis so if the weather is very severe
and the power went out and you set up
let's say you set up your generator
before
shabus um so it's providing heat and
some with the lights and so on but then
it runs out because it's not uh it's not
it needs it needs uh some gas or it
needs some sort of fuel and it's not
hooked up permanently so it goes out
after a number of hours and we've had
this question previously can we have can
you ask a non-jew to ref fill the
generator and to keep and to get it get
it going one once more right so that's
that's a good question um um we have a
principle that when uh when when when a
person's very cold extremely cold so
that's considered as something which is
going to make a person sick Hally um
might be traumatically as well but Hally
um uh stra very cold temperatures are
considered unhealthy and therefore
person would be treated like a like a
sick person so um you know so then
asking an
N be allowed to so he would be allowed
to ask n to make sure it's not we once
asked if if it's very cold if it's
necessary if it's really necessary we
once asked um uh who's our reic
administrator here we asked him what
about if it would be let's say 50 Dees
is that is that cold and he said inside
a house that's that's cold you know
because the person might think well only
if it's freezing like 32 degrees 50° is
is quite cold inside even though we can
go out when it's 50° but you know and
it's it's not not freezing but that's
outside you're not there for for a long
time inside the house if it's 50 uh
people could could possibly get sick and
that would be even enough to permit you
to ask a non-jew to uh to set up the
generator and obviously not to do it
yourself that would not Beed to ask you
wouldn't be allow to do it yourself
because when you're putting in gas
you're doing a Biblical prohibition
you're lighting a fire and that would
would be that would be prohibited
um okay Jeff
asks we have let's go back here let's
take a couple of questions then and I
think we have to come to the end AR says
leaving the radio on and other
precautions to stay in formed for safety
when severe weather is anticipated on
chabis
andum
um well yeah so so the best thing is to
live in Israel where they have I think
they have special stations for these
kind of things where they quiet stations
and they only announce if there's some
problem okay in America we don't have
that right I mean generally a person's
not meant to have a radio on in General
on shabas because it's it's it's noise
it's something which is meant to produce
noise and shabas is meant to be a day of
rest and it's not meant to have things
going on in the house which are
producing noise so generally not um yes
you know if there's um if if there would
be some reason why there would be great
necessity there might be difference I'm
not sure if um you know if you need the
radio to tell you whether you can walk
to sh or not you can just look outside
the window or snow would not be the kind
of thing that would that would help you
to have the radio on what are they
telling you but if you lived in in a
place where they might you know have
tornadoes or other types of severe
weather you might you would want to know
person would want to leave it on quiet
not blaring put it in in in a room that
no one's going to hear right and then if
they need to they can go in they could
do what if municipality declares a state
of emergency and people will be ticketed
for driving on the roads you mean should
you go to sh at that time I I would say
no that doesn't sound it no definitely
not if it's a state state of emergency
it happened this past week in New York
they after 11:00 on what was it uh
Tuesday Monday night you weren't allowed
to be on the roads in New York City uh
then the person should not be on the
road and driving to sh apart from the
issues the person should also keep the
law of the land right the law of the
land is do anything and they they're
really strict about they really mean
stay off the
streets um
okay and uh New York City Bann bikes too
he said ARA said okay but maybe they
didn't ban walking okay Robert Frankle
we've been we've been out it for about
40 45 minutes and we have all good
questions I'm not sure that we answered
everybody's questions but we tried to
get as many as we can uh want to thank
you for for joining us today pleasure to
be um I think all listeners appreciated
the uh the words of Torah and especially
the English accent that everybody loves
that and uh we want to thank uh ruen
Chapman for helping us on the technical
side debie Rosenstein for the video all
of these did you know Frankle all of
these are archived at our on our Vimeo
Channel and and and people can see them
on kosher classes. org or they can go to
our Vimeo Channel look for star k uh or
we also have a YouTube channel you can
look for the star k over there
and you can see all of these it takes us
a couple days to get it up and to get it
set but uh God willing we will do it our
go book says it's going to be up it'll
be up it will be up rain rain and snow
and will not stop us earthquakes will
not stop the star k from sharing kis and
Torah information uh I want to thank
everybody for for joining today uh
remember we uh we have this webinar once
a month the last Wednesday of the month
at 12:00 noon if you want to sign up and
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thanks very much for joining have a
great day and stay safe