מפגש - פרק 6: תוקף בלי להתנצל: ר' מוטק'ה בלוי

You know him as the most blunt interviewee when it comes to representing the Haredi public. He usually goes on air either from his home or from the Degel HaTorah offices in Bnei Brak, advocating for the Haredi public in a way that some praise and love—the way he lashes out at interviewers, so to speak, and tells the hard truth to their faces—while others praise him less, saying it’s too blunt or perhaps provocative. Another title of his, another hat if you will, is that of an educator of the generation. He is against the way weddings and events in the Haredi public have looked in recent years and the trends, and he wages wars. He has many fans, he also has opponents, but one thing is certain: no one is indifferent to this figure. And of course, I am talking about the one and only, Rabbi Mottye Baloy, whom I don’t even know how to define. We will soon give him the floor and hear from him exactly how to define him and with what titles to crown him. So we are diving straight in during what is, by the way, the most burning and turbulent period for the Haredi public. The eve of elections. I am sure this podcast will remain relevant years from now, but right now we are at a boiling point in Haredi-secular relations. The Haredi public and the state, the world of Yeshivas and the draft. And we are here with the man and the worldview, Rabbi Mottye Baloy. A meeting with Aryeh Ehrlich, conversations without masks with the people behind the headlines. >> Hello to you, Rabbi Mottye Baloy. >> Hello and blessings. First of all, you gave an introduction, so I will give one too. It took a long time until we managed to reach this meeting point, as I had both dilemmas and a scheduling problem. Geopolitical, geographical, but in the end, I saw it as the right platform to talk about things. My definition is very simple and sharp: a Jew with the taste of the old days. A stubborn conservative. " >> Oh, and quite stubborn," wait, there is another sentence. >> Yes. >> A wise liberal. >> A liberal? Heaven forbid! I don’t know if we can broadcast these things. We are not...we are... >> Surely, surely, the place I am in, with people very, very, very...almost a newspaper...we are...I am a conservative, a wise conservative, Mottye. If you are a wise liberal, I am the opposite of you. I see myself as a wise conservative, I hope wise at least , I strive to lean toward preserving. >> In your personal life or in life?[ Yiddish/German phrase: Trying to express his identity][Yiddish/German phrase: Life is old with...][Yiddish/ German phrase: Sharp, but still young] Because. Yes, yes, okay, indifferent, fine. >> Well, we must switch to Hebrew. I don't want to lose listeners. As you say, Mottye said here in Yiddish that unfortunately the young Haredi generation doesn't speak Yiddish, what can you do, they don't speak it. >> Even the holy Rashi says it in all sorts of special words, "Laaz." >> Laaz, yes, in a foreign tongue. So we won’t...but Hebrew has its source in the Holy Tongue. Okay, let's not get into ideological debates about Ben-Yehuda now; that is not why we gathered here. Mottye Baloy, I understand that the elections are what really moved you to bother to come. You also usually don't come to studios. You prefer that interviewers come to you, but you made the effort to come to us. First of all, I really appreciate that very much. And we will open with current events, but later I will want to dive into the untold story of Mottye Baloy. Who is Mottye, the man? But yes, I will first let you get out what you have on your heart, in your gut, about the elections. Explain, say a few words about the importance of the campaign, and then we will talk about what interests me. Please, Rabbi Modka. >> I really hope you will stop me because I can talk non-stop for an hour and a half and tell the whole Mishnah. Yes. No, let's keep it short and focused. After that, we will also return to the elections. Don't worry. Of course, the elections are one topic, but we have other topics that we deal with all year round. Whether it's education, keeping the borders, or strengthening the walls and the outreach that is very close to my heart. In any case, if we are speaking, then I want to start with a sentence that I always say. Who is Haredi? Rabbi Ehrlich, who is Haredi? >> I will ask you a different question. Who is the gatekeeper standing at the gates of Haredi society deciding who is Haredi? So I will give you the parameter now. You spoke beautifully, I will define a Haredi for you in a way we both agree on: it's not someone born to a Haredi mother. >> Yes, that's not "who is a Jew." A Haredi in his eyes is a person who trembles (chared) at the word of God, as his name implies. >> Beautiful, so I will tell you who a Haredi is: a Haredi is a Jew who lives according to the Shulchan Aruch of Rabbi Yosef Karo and all the authorities. >> The Rema, of course. >> Of course, according to the Bnei Ashkenaz and all the authorities and the greats who followed him—that is a Haredi. Now, who is Haredi today? How do I know how to measure him? Haredi is a prestigious club. And don't ask me how I know it's a prestigious club? Because all kinds of people in my surroundings, my family, or my friends, or even those who were once my students who strayed a bit to the side, who call themselves liberals or more open, ask for a Haredi education of one kind or another, it doesn't matter what, and they call me: "Can you help? My daughter, my son, arrange them in a Cheder, in a Yeshiva, here or there." Why? Because they know Haredi is the most prestigious club in the world today. Every club, every group, has rules. What is the rule that allows you to say "I am Haredi"? I will explain in one sentence. And woe to you if you don't agree with me. Rabbi Aryeh. A Haredi is someone who understands that all his private and public life is managed by Torah greats, either his personal Rabbi or the greater Torah leaders. Without this, he is not Haredi , because he will do whatever he wants, manage however he wants. No problem, his private life at home he will decide , but as is the case among the Hasidim, the Sephardim, and the Lithuanians. All generations knew that when they want to finalize a match, they go to the Rebbe. >> What? Does the Rebbe know my son? Does the Rebbe know my daughter? >> No. I know that for every deciding matter that requires an important opinion in life, I go to ask. >> Even if it's about entering a business deal, they go to ask the Rebbe. " >> Make for yourself a teacher," the Sages said. Right? So I will add to you, it is written there "Make for yourself a teacher," the Maharsha says, one who takes a seat. >> He takes a seat here, right? It's so clear. And in this regard, it must also be said, you, even you are on the fence , but you represent here, at least for the sake of the matter or in the media, the Litvak community. And the Litvak community, in recent years, has also become like Hasidim, become like Hasidim in the matter of truly asking about everything, even in personal life , not just, of course, halachic questions—one always asks the Gedolei Yisrael and the teachers—but also questions in personal life and blessings. We saw what it was like around the home of Maran Sar HaTorah Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky, may the memory of the righteous and holy be a blessing , who became a Rebbe in every sense, and this phenomenon is blessed, and in this regard, we... >> A Rebbe who, because he became a Rebbe, because he was a teacher to all, force, force. >> No, because they told stories. >> Force, look, Moti, but now that we have started with this, and we will also return to public matters, I want us to do something here that you don't do in any other interview, and we will try to understand who Moti Blau is. You grew up in Jerusalem, you have a life story that hasn't been told, you are letting it be told. I want to hear your life story. I want to understand later how you arrived in Bnei Brak. Who are you? You are very, very Jerusalemite in every fiber of your being, but you also live in Bnei Brak. But let's start from the beginning. Moti Blau, where were you born? I was born. >> Tell your background. >> In the Beit Yisrael neighborhood. Which neighborhood, which street? >> On Shimon Rokach Street. >> Shimon Rokach, yes. >> In that... >> Next to the Shtieblach, close to the Shtieblach, a street two streets from the Beit Yisrael Shtieblach, yes, yes. >> In Saneh Kesul they called it. >> On our street, there were maybe four, maybe five. >> Haredi families. >> They were simple Sephardic Jews, they didn't exactly keep Shabbat, not all of them. My teacher, Rabbi David Nachman Blau, who was a great educator, and about whom Maran Rabbi Ovadia testified that he saved at that time, in the 50s, the Sephardic world that was being dragged away. And there were those who at first walked on foot until the soccer games to see the Beitar Jerusalem games. After that, they already traveled by car. And that's how they deteriorated, and my teacher came together with the great tzaddik Rabbi Yoseleler and my grandfather, R’ Bori Rosenberg, my father, may he rest in peace. >> Chaim Uri Rosenberg, who established together the Yeshiva [for] those who were lost, also to save the generation. >> Together with Rabbi David Leib Klein. >> Rabbi David Leib Klein, who was the spiritual father of the place. >> Yes, Rabbi Leib Metzger arrived later, he, he. >> Rabbi Leib Metzger is already the second or third generation. >> Yes, who by the way is also from the family. Anyway, there was a very large influx, unfortunately, within the Hungarian houses, there wasn't a house that wasn't, there wasn't a house where there wasn't someone who went to the Etzel, the Lehi, or the Haganah. >> By the way, your father also fought in the Haganah. It wasn't the only family where no one went. My father, who was later called to the flag to move to the south, where they would settle Jews in moshavim, who they took off the trucks from the airport straight to some field , a wilderness. >> Not to the villages, yes. >> Kfar is immigrants from Kudsan, Otzem is immigrants from Morocco, Zvadi is immigrants from Yemen, and they didn't have Haredi education. There was Moshav Komemiyut which was founded then with the great tzaddik and gaon. >> Rabbi Benyomin Mendelson. >> The Torah greats of Israel came and said: Levi, you are so successful in Jerusalem! That he established the " Matmidim" yeshiva for the Sephardic communities and raised them up. Chacham Shalom, may he rest in peace, would say : Rabbi David, David Nachman. At the eulogy, all the Sephardic Torah greats came to eulogize him, from Maran Rabbi Ovadia down to everyone. That my father was a man close to Rabbi Ezra Attia, the Rosh Yeshiva of Porat Yosef, who would rise for my father as if he were a young student. >> They knew each other from Beit Yisrael, probably. Shoshanim LeDavid was a street away from us; he would give lessons on Shabbat afternoons at Shoshanim LeDavid, which is up the street, yes. >> Yes, my father founded the Matmidim Yeshiva. He took the families: Naki, Basri, the Yosef family, the sons of Chacham Ovadia and others, brought them in the evening for studies, after Talmud Torah, after school, and created a system of prizes for them. Why not? Rabbi Avraham from Holon told me today that my father used to distribute prizes in those days. Well, what could it be? So, so, so, uh...He always asked that his prize be a notebook. Why? Because he said that his father, the Maran, didn't even have money to buy a notebook to write down his Torah insights. In short, what is there to say? >> Yes. Wait, but you wanted to explain how your father reached... >> Wait, wait. And then they called him, he arrived in the south, received an empty plot, and turned that empty plot into the Chazon Yechezkel youth village . He got on a horse and wagon, traveled from moshav to moshav, and convinced the Jews to send their children to him, away from the school that was a regional school. And he asked...And he spoke, and it didn't always work. And a story that Rabbi Ben-Hamo, the son of the first rabbi of Moshav Utzem—which today has more than 100 families in the moshav, and there is also a yeshiva there, one of the yeshivas of Rabbi Steinman, may the memory of the righteous and holy be blessed, located in Utzem—he came to Utzem with a dear Jew named Rabbi Yinkel Gutman, the grandfather of the writer Moshe Gutman from Komemiyut. He reached Rabbi Ben-Hamo, and he said to him: "Rabbi, the children here are learning in a co-ed environment, not a Torah-based one, they lied to you, you are new immigrants." Rabbi Ben-Hamo was a very warm Jew; he told them: "Wait here, Mincha prayer will arrive soon." They waited in the synagogue; people started arriving, some with a pickaxe, some with a hoe, some with this, with a tractor, some with that, they returned from the fields, they gathered for Mincha prayer. Rabbi Ben-Hamo opened the holy ark and said: "I am your Rabbi and I implore you: everyone, take your children out of the regional school of the Shafir regional council and transfer them." You see...this Jew, by the way, I have photos of these things, I made a book about my father. You are transferring—192 boys and girls were transferred. To where? Tents, there was nothing. My father set up tents, a school in tents, and then they started having a heavy truck that carried and collected the children from all the surrounding moshavim, until my father became a supervisor for dozens of schools in the north and south. He was an independent educator, a man...he was the last Agudist by the way that existed, he was...yes, that's also clear. And my father was the grandson of Rabbi Moshe Blau, a leader of Agudat Yisrael, the right-hand man of Rabbi Yosef Chaim Zonnenfeld. With...I said exactly where it comes from. And I grew up in childhood, at first in a cheder near home, which was a Karlin cheder in ...I was in a certain class, and then my father decided to move me to a different cheder, and then I studied for a certain period in the Zupnik buildings, a house where people vote, a house where they hold big gatherings before the elections. I am studying in the Dushinsky cheder in the Zupnik buildings. >> One just needs to explain to those who don't know, since a young generation grew up here, the Zupnik buildings are the place that housed the Eidah Charedit. All the protests of the Eidah Charedit, including against the elections, among other things, were announced on the balcony known as the balcony next to the Zupnik building, and there were also...I still lived there as a child, to hold in my hand the greatest judges who were there at the time. >> Rabbi Yitzchak, even before Rabbi Yitzchak Grizman and others. >> Rabbi Zelig Reuven, no, you didn't know him. >> No, no, Rabbi Zelig Reuven, no, in any case. >> Okay, now. >> I was also there, after that I went to the very quiet one in Dushinsky, and then my father chose, just as all the other family members chose, to send him to Lithuanian yeshivas, and then I left Jerusalem. >> Oh, and here the mess begins. >> No mess begins at all. >> The mess in the sense of some kind of friction between a Jerusalem Jew, a person who to this day hasn't integrated into Bnei Brak, you bring the Jerusalem spirit into the heart of the Lithuanian institutional mainstream , Degel HaTorah, we will deal with this further, but I want to stop for a second, one step back. >> Just a minute. >> My father bought me a siddur and a machzor of the Ashkenaz rite, even though he prayed in Nusach Sefard because he studied at the Slonim yeshiva. I cannot assess now why exactly my grandfather, Rabbi Yankev, sent him to Slonim, because he didn't want... >> He was a student of the Slonim yeshiva. >> Not of Eitz Chaim. >> Wait. >> My father was a prominent student of the Slonim yeshiva, but why did my grandfather, Rabbi Yankev, send him there? >> Yes, Rabbi Yankev was not Eitz Chaim. >> Right. >> Because my grandfather held that a child who has to walk through Jaffa Road, he won't grow up as he should. Secondly, and I will say this quietly, my grandfather, the son of Rav Moshe, was also a Kanno (zealot), and he believed that there were too many " Kookniks" at Eitz Chaim. >> Look. >> So you understand what kind of home I grew up in, that on one hand... >> Wait, one has to say what "Kookniks" are. The Mashgiach of Eitz Chaim, the righteous Rabbi Aryeh Levin, greatly valued Rabbi Kook. Not only that, they were...it was forbidden to talk, but the Rabbi also...with everyone, the Rabbi was respected in his time. >> He was considered a giant of a man. >> But the Blau family... >> That is to say. >> That is to say, your father was not sent to Eitz Chaim because your grandfather believed that at Eitz Chaim there were... >> Influence. >> This is something that is... >> Well, that is already history. >> That he...no, today, today they wouldn't understand it at all, it doesn't matter. After that, you realize that on one hand, my father was a man of the world, a car owner because of the urgent trips he took for it. >> Wait, by the way, and how did he get to the army? >> Wait, one more moment. So, because he was traveling to the south every day— at first, he would come home once every two weeks—afterward, he was there every day with a car. >> What kind of car? >> The only car, a Renault 4, I don't know what it was, the only car in the Beit Yisrael neighborhood almost. The phone in our house was almost the only phone there was. We would get calls to go half a street away to call a neighbor because his son called him from Bnei Brak or Tel Aviv. >> You were the neighborhood switchboard. >> Yes, it doesn't matter. And we were, thank God, 15 children, and my mother ran the house. >> 15 children? What, what place are you in? What place are you among the children? I'm the third from the top. >> You're the third from the top. >> Yes, and then... >> Your older brothers above you? I have a brother, Rabbi Moshe Isaac, today he calls himself Isaac Blau. He writes here sometimes, in your places, in Kolmus and many others. >> Yes. >> Known and appreciated in the technical studies of... >> A very fascinating man. >> Yes, a most fascinating figure. >> Wait, but above... >> By the way, he is also original, the whole Blau family, you are not... >> You, you, you are different, you aren't like anything else. >> Of course, there was a saying in Jerusalem: whoever thinks there is one normal person in the Blau family, then that doctor, that diagnostician, needs to be hospitalized. >> Outsiders, they call it. >> Yes, no, special. >> With, with genes of public concern. Every Blau you see, or put him somewhere, he is either a synagogue treasurer, or manages the Gemach, or is involved in some public or educational endeavor. >> So, Rabbi Isaac is the firstborn? >> No, no, my older sister, whose husband is my brother-in-law, Rabbi Naftali Lander. >> Ah. >> Who is a genius, a righteous Torah scholar. >> No, he is the Rosh Yeshiva of the [name ] Yeshiva. There, he had a...there was once...there was... >> Hutz of Chessed. >> Yes, Hutz of Chessed. He was once, he was once a Rosh Yeshiva who was with some Jerusalemite [group], and after that, they snatched him over there and he, and there they brought... >> So he is your older brother-in-law. >> And after that, my brother, and after that, me. >> And you. >> And after me, there are brothers-in-law and brothers, and everyone. >> Yes, yes, we are... >> I am the only one who moved to Bnei Brak, but you asked about the army. My father already reached a state where he was already a grandfather at age 36. >> Wow. >> My sister got married at a very young age, and then he managed a school, he managed a boys 'school, a girls' school , he managed all sorts of things, and they started... >> To ask him why he didn't serve? So no, it was a problem, it started to become a legal problem. >> Ah, legal, okay. >> So the Gedolei Yisrael [leaders of Israel] of that time, which were the Steipler and Rav Shach—even though my father was a Jerusalemite, yes, but those were his rabbis because he was in Tzeirei Agudat Yisrael...[names]...told him to go to the army for Stage B. >> The father of...how many, almost, you know, 15 children. >> So at age 36 with 15 children, your father joins for Stage B? Wait a second , and then where did they take him? To HAGA. Explain to the people. >> That's the first version of the Home Front Command. >> Home Front Command. And they asked him what he does in the army? He says, he teaches old people how to run, and he was in the war, uh, a day after the Six-Day War he got a rifle and a long Czech one that weighed more than him, and tzitzit hanging out over the uniform together with Rabbi Eisenthal, a dear man, his friend from Slonim, the shor of... >> Of Rabbi, uh, Israel Eichler, yes, he would go to the Western Wall with tefillin, and he actually caught, he caught a terrorist, by the way, an interesting story, not everyone knows who Rabbi Eisenthal is. >> My father and Rabbi Eisenthal suspected ... >> I knew Rabbi Eisenthal, he was a righteous man, he also lived in Beit Yisrael. >> Yes, near us, Rabbi Shimon Rokach, he had on both sides... >> His son, the Rabbi... >> Chaim Ozer street and Shimon Rokach street. >> His son, the righteous Rabbi Pinchas Eisenthal, is my teacher and rabbi, he was my mashgiach in the yeshiva, and I knew the whole Eisenthal family. >> Yes. >> Uh, we are also connected through a match, because I have a brother who is also a Slonimer Chassid with Rabbi Uri Blau, whose son is, is Shimi Blau, the well-known one. >> Uri Blau, Rabbi Uri Blau, today an educator and influencer at the Ohr Yeshiva in Jerusalem, yes. >> Yes, my teacher as well. >> Yes, after that, my father was in the reserves on Yom Kippur, and I remember when the war started, with his left hand he plugged back in the house telephone—it was a plug and socket that you remove—because maybe they would call him urgently from the army, and truly, after that, he went to ensure there was a blackout inside all the houses and... >> A blackout, yes, to operate it, yes, there was, there were streetlights, so my father, he wouldn't start now— there were no cell phones—he wouldn't start calling the municipality to get them to turn it off, he took the Czech rifle, hit the lamp, and that's how it became dark in the neighborhood. >> That's a classic Blau-style method. >> Yes, in short, there is nothing that stands in the way of those people, and that's what my father did in the army. >> Tell me, and when they ask you today... >> Today, by the way... >> When they ask you this question today, yes, we are here, we are in the middle of a campaign on this issue of explaining to yeshivas to study Torah and to explain that even someone who doesn't study in a yeshiva, the army doesn't suit him because it's secular, and the army still hasn't proven that it fits at all, that it's possible to enter as a Haredi and leave as a Haredi . But how do they ask you in the media? If they ask you, and find out that your father was in the army, has that—what has changed? Why did it suit your father, and today it doesn't? What do you answer? >> Well, to this question—this question is very important. Until a few years ago, there were quite a few Haredim in the army. There was a directive: You don't use the deferment, the deferment for those who study Torah. There is the famous letter from Rabbi Shach, the letterhead of the Yeshiva Committee, because he was the president of the Yeshiva Committee: Woe to anyone who does not study Torah day and night ( meaning all day) and uses this deferment. There were those who found loopholes and others who knew how to manage. There were entire yeshivas here that were actually a psychiatric institution. Uh, uh, and... >> Yes. >> And others did stage B. The army was friendlier to the Haredi person; today it's a progress army, with the Chief of Staff holding a, a consultant for... >> Consultant for gender affairs, yes. >> For gender, women, I don't know what. >> Ah, okay. >> And if they have trouble putting a female soldier in a Namer or tank because of so-called equality, the Haredi person has nothing to do there. Now, tell me, has the Hasmonean attempt with female soldiers succeeded yet? It might work in basic training, perhaps, but someone who wants to advance a bit higher to officer rank suddenly switches to a command position. >> Yes, we see it, our brother. >> Now, besides the language issue. >> Yes. >> The style. >> No, I’m saying our brothers from the Haredi and Hardal sectors, they are dealing with this. >> It’s very hard for them; I see the questions they send to the rabbi. >> Yes, to their rabbis. >> There was also... >> There are women who come to the Knesset committees and shout about this. >> A short time ago, 18 soldiers refused to board the Namers because there was a female paramedic there, and so on, yes. >> Yes, they can't say, "All of life-saving, it is written: 'The Lord your God...'""... >> walks in the midst of your camp to save you, and...""...so that He sees no shameful thing among you." >> It's not just that; it's the problem of the style of speech. A Haredi company or a Haredi unit. >> And back then it was different. In the period of the veteran, it was different . It was, yes, lots and lots of Haredim with long sidelocks were in the Six-Day War and the Yom Kippur War. >> Wait, and today he arrives at a Beit Yisrael school like that, with the uniform and the gun. >> Everyone walked around with uniforms then. >> And no one yelled at him. >> No one yelled at him, no one talked about it, and nothing happened then. >> Alright, Chief of Staff. >> Wait, one more word. >> Yes. >> You have to understand, there is a need for...A framework that will suit a Haredi—it’s not just chulent on Friday night; it includes other things, okay? But. We want Yavne and its sages, that is the motto. Our teacher Rabbi Dovid Lando comes and says: The army doesn't speak to us because of the High Court, because of all the petitions from 30 years ago, which is when the troubles began. People don't know how to show gratitude; until a few years ago, everyone could sit and learn in peace. We are not talking about the army; no Haredi now who has brothers, cousins, or sons is going to the army, because you—the army now—are against the world of Torah. >> A whip that persecutes the world of Torah. >> Besides that, you aren't compatible. What does the new law do that they want to be the Lieberman law? Yes, he approved it at the time. >> The same law that the Haredi parties opposed officially, but behind the scenes they acted so it would pass— they certainly didn't oppose it officially. There was opposition from a certain spiritual figure, a certain holy vessel, and other Torah giants said: "We won't make a dispute over this; perhaps a better opportunity will come." And then this terrible war came, and the worst opportunity arrived. What was it? To continue the arrangement of "his Torah is his craft," and regarding working Haredim—arrange frameworks, but not that the Chief of Staff decides what the framework is, whether it's Haredi or not. They wanted a Dayan, a Dayan who loves the religious court, for a Rabbinical court to be in charge. >> Yes, but I want to stop you here. What is "working Haredim"? First of all, it's not about working Haredim; it's about young boys. You are the son of Rabbi Dovid Nachman Blau, and you boasted here for long minutes, and rightly so, how your father saved boys from Mizrahi backgrounds from spiritual destruction, literally. >> Truly destroyed. >> And now, what was on the agenda here— right now it has all been thwarted, we'll see what happens after the elections—was a law that dictates double standards: for one, Yitzhak Alchon goes to the right; for another, Yitzhak Alchon goes to the left. You know, do you remember that expression from Rabbi A. Boruch? I mean, they would ask to...they would send Buzaglo to the left, and...and Tobul and...I mean, it's clear that that's where it was headed. And that is truly the source of the concern for many of the Sephardic rabbis, Rabbi Tzedaka and others, who say: after all, who ends up paying the price of these quotas? The boys. How did you recognize them? The boys from Shmuel HaNavi, they are the ones who will be sent to the army to fill the bathtub. How do we explain this law that was on the agenda to ourselves? >> So let me, let me explain it to you. Whenever quotas are set, they can be managed in two ways; the first way is through proper frameworks, provided the first rule for being accepted into this framework is that you are a married man . Now, I'm not talking about the Haredi Nahal, which is called Haredi Nahal, which has... >> Well, that is history. >> Yes, that...no, it still exists today, where great Torah scholars have said: if a boy is standing in the neighborhood, at home, and corrupting his surroundings, violating the entire Torah, desecrating the Sabbath, and committing sins punishable by excision —what did Rabbi Shach once tell me? A boy, back then, almost 50 years ago, a boy, the son of a great Rosh Yeshiva, who had a small problem and they kicked him out. Rabbi Shach said to me, and I will say it to you in Yiddish, and I'm not sure I can translate: "Zeh ins,"" Zeh guddaliter, zeh nesh,""Zon mentrknzen." He testified, and that is how it was. >> In any case, for the benefit of the listeners who don't understand Yiddish, he told you: listen, let him go to the army afterward, and there he will become a human being, and after he becomes a human being, let him return to the yeshiva, good. >> Then he can be a Jew, yes. >> And he grew up to be a Jew, he is a wealthy man today in the United States, his children are here in yeshivas, he is a great donor, and he really got back on his feet. In any case, that is the A-B-C I say in the media. You said I'm always extreme; no, I know... >> No, sweetheart, you have appearances that are provocative. Excuse me, I sometimes cringe with embarrassment. I also appear in the media sometimes, as you know, I try, you know, to present some kind of national face, to explain, but in the language of you come, you come again, okay. I, I don't sugarcoat reality, I am the most—and this is an opportunity—in this matter at least, I think we are in agreement: I am against "dancing" around the issues, I am against, I am against coming to the studios, I am against coming to the studios and saying, "Wait, there is a dialogue, there are processes, we will eventually come to the army, we are in favor." No, we, I think we need to tell the whole truth and not fool the other side, and also not dance around the issues, as I said. But sometimes you have those moments where you are provocative, and it’s like you’re poking a finger in the eyes of the hosts and the viewers. I don’t think it’s like that. >> By the way, I think this method is truly unique, it’s the level of expertise with interviewers—it depends on the interviewer, and you know there can sometimes be 10 interviews. >> Yes, you have a special affection for Rafi Reshef. >> Wait, there are sometimes 10 interviews a day of different kinds with, with different networks. And like you said, I don’t go to the studios, so I know I have those two minutes, two and a half minutes, and I need to throw out sharp messages. And you see that right now the public, the traditional public, is holding on; how do they put it to you, even the most left-wing, "We won't touch Torah scholars," where does that come from? Also from this advocacy that without Torah study we have nothing to do. So you really think, sweetheart, wait a second, that’s how the traditional viewer sees you on the screen, this Haredi guy from Bnei Brak who tells him off in every such interview, like only you know how, and says sharp, honed, I would even say, blunt sentences. You don’t convey, I am sure in your heart it is not like that, but you at least convey in some of your interviews. As if you are completely indifferent to the Israeli pain, to what tens of thousands of families have been going through since October 7th. It doesn’t come across on screen, because I understand a bit about media. >> I understand too. Let me explain to you . I meet people in... >> Are you sure that convinces them, the traditional public, that it evokes empathy? That it says, "Wow, this is a Haredi after my own heart.""I think the Haredim are right, because look, Motke just cornered the interviewer, he explained to him..." >> Just let me >> tell you >> My family members will testify >> that when I arrive at places where there are secular Jews of all types, hospitals, I have a doctor's visit at a clinic in Tel Hashomer, at Sheba, or anywhere, there hasn't been a time I didn't meet people who said, "Ah, I know you, well done! 90%of all your appearances in the media are one big Kiddush Hashem, Rabbi Motke, yes." >> There are leftists who tell me, "What you're doing isn't nice," but I tell you, honestly, 90%of the people of different types, especially the older ages who spend a lot of time in front of the screen, tell me, "Listen, well done for what you're doing." >> In short, what you are doing is only Kiddush Hashem. Tell me, I want...I want to understand this, because there is a disagreement on this matter even among those involved in advocacy. There is a disagreement among those involved. I...I have people, a large part of them , maybe most of them, who say: "Motke, you're not doing it right, Motke is too provocative, too much, conveys coldness and indifference, and scorns the Israeli pain, that's not how you do it" —that’s what they claim. You...you are speaking correctly, because I receive remarks from people who deal with the subject of outreach, dialogue, and also values. >> And what do they tell you? >> That it’s not the style. >> Not always the style. Blessed is He who guided me, many times. >> But you see that many times I do, I do interviews, I don't go on certain days because I know that now these are days of pain. And even when I do go on and I speak about soldiers, I say that thanks to those who study Torah, we have merited huge open miracles. The child in this generation has seen in these years what previous generations have not seen. >> What did you see? What, really? You know, I have to tell you, I was moved, people were in prayer, a child found... A small thing in... >> A bomb remnant, yes, in... >> Wait, the size of a cola can. >> It turns out it's one small part of a cluster bomb that carries dozens of these, and it caused so many injuries —may they be healthy and have a complete recovery. And for the child who was killed, may God avenge his blood. And all these amounts were sent at us, and what miracles there were here! In any case, since you mentioned Rafi Reshef, I tell him to his face sometimes: Rafi, I know who your grandfather was. His grandfather was a Karliner Hasid. >> Karliner, what was his name? Victor, they told me that time. And then he is capable of asking you, at the peak of the problem of funerals, at the peak, but already a provocative question because he wants to come off well with his guys. >> Sweetie. >> Wait, give me a second, you don't expect the question he asks you. >> How many funerals were there today in the Haredi public? >> What do you answer him? >> Many more than in Unit 8200. You need to show... >> Listen. >> Wait, wait, one second, one second. >> No, no, and then I continue. >> In the culture...one second, but wait, I want to stop here. In the culture of debates, you beat him, you "stuck it to him" as they say nowadays. >> But did you convince Masoud from Sderot , who is sitting in front of the screen and sees this Haredi who, instead of expressing empathy and identification, brought empathy and identification... okay, you stuck it to him, but did you sanctify God's name in that answer? >> In the same breath, I tell him: 8200 is a critical unit. Woe to the company that goes out to battle and doesn't get data from 8200 about what is happening there in the field. But what? It is buried and closed in some bunker with air conditioning, and they are sitting in front of screens and phones and I don't know what else, because these are combat support. And there are in the army...and I was at the IDF Personnel Directorate, at the Kirya in Tel Aviv, in one of the years on a mission—it doesn't matter what. We talked then about Haredi frameworks, Shahar Kachol and all that. >> Heaven forbid. >> And I asked, and I asked. >> You supported that? >> We went to check it on behalf of the Torah leaders because we connected... you look for frameworks. And Rabbi Raibed will tell you how much it fell apart because it didn't work. Doesn't matter. So, I asked how much of the army...I asked at the Personnel Directorate, the senior people, generals from the Manpower Directorate. How much of the army is actually combat personnel in life-threatening situations? >> 20%. >> 15%in the world's armies, 10%here because of the wars, 15%. Meaning. >> 85%are not in the army in a place that endangers life. I say this in an interview. So if in the combat support there is 8200, then we as the Jewish people, it cannot be that there won't be combat support of Torah students. Wait, I'm saying the sentence in its entirety and I... >> Yes, but you know you can't say a sentence in its entirety, that's already the expansion when you're sitting now... >> That's why you need to be born with a special voice to be able to give the >> When we sit here for a podcast, we can speak in depth, we can expand on ideas. In the media, it's what's called punches, short sentences. And the moment you give a sentence, which they then cut and it goes on social media, and here it turns out the Haredi put out some, some segment where you I saw recently where you make, you make some voice of, some voice of a goat, I don't know what that was. Come on, listen closely. >> Network Or station, when I give ideas, I try for it to be live, but if it's not live and they cut it, let them look for me, and you should know that they chase after me and I try to suggest to them, take him, go to this one, go to that one, no, you know why they want you >> Because I >> Because you're a provocateur, that's what they want, right? Because I >> No doubt, in terms of ratings, you're a ratings bomb, honey, you've cracked a system here, you're really, you're a walking ratings bomb. >> And that's why they want you, and that's why producers call you morning, noon, and night. >> They want the antithesis, but they won't go to Lishkrois. >> They go to me because I am in the political game and I do belong. >> Yes, because they put the stripe at the bottom, "Degel HaTorah man," of course that gives some kind of, like what you're saying, how he represents Gafni or >> Anyway, on the subject of public advocacy, I consulted quite a bit with my rabbis and I asked them to what extent, where >> Who are your rabbis, honey? >> My rabbis, first of all, the greatest of the generation. I studied in Litvak yeshivas, I heard lessons from Rav Shach, from Rav Shmuel Rozovsky, from Rav Dovid, from all the geniuses of the world. You're a Ponevezh graduate? >> And its surroundings, its yeshivas, and I am a devoted student of the pillar of instruction and the greatest yeshivas of the generation. >> I studied for 18 years in Kollel, I received rabbinic ordination, and since then, for 50 years, I've been close to him, he relies on me for all sorts of issues. >> You studied in a Kollel in, in...that's one rabbi of mine. Now, I have Rav Silman of the Rabbinical Court in Bnei Brak, Rav Silman, Rav Yisrael Rosenberg , who are senior rabbis and judges on public matters, by whose authority I act in the guard of holiness and education. >> And of course, Dovid does today, I listen to everything Rav Dovid says, Rav Moshe Hillel says, other greats say , I am very, very sensitive to the opinion of the great ones, so I also asked on the subject of ideas. >> Yes. >> And I receive feedback, I'm not tone-deaf, and I know when to go on and with whom to go on. For example, if it's someone hosting a show on one of the channels, a soccer player, rude, 10 more times they tried, I won't go on, but >> I am also, for all the requests from his show, I refused, and I have a few others, because it's not a discussion at all, it's just, it's rude, but I do go on >> Where there is a bit more intelligence and yet can reach the public, and I'll tell you, I meet people, I get phone calls, people. >> Okay, is there an idea you regret, an idea you carried out and regretted? >> Oh my, you're trying to get me to compile all my ideas into a book now. I don't remember, actually; it might have been one of the first ideas I gave to the media, it was on the radio, and that’s where I saw that, thank God, it has an impact. I'll tell you, I'll tell you. >> Razi Barkai. >> Right. >> I remember I was a yeshiva student back then, I listened and really appreciated it. It was a successful idea. You mentioned the book "Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus," right? >> By, by, by, by, by Dr. A. >> And I said to myself, "He's got it." >> Wait, was it like that? What was it about? >> But I don't think you only talked about women...yes, what was it about? About the exclusion of women? >> Yes, about the "Erika" affair, right? >> And about women in the back. And I explained to Razi Barkai to his face that it's nonsense to talk about gender equality, and that for us, the woman is the most important thing, the one who brings in the Sabbath, I remember. >> Yes. >> Come on, when this idea is aired more on the radio. >> From there it only went downhill, in your opinion, and in your newspaper, you keep bringing it up. >> Whoa, listen, let’s take advantage of the fact that we've lowered the tone a bit, and I want to go back to a story that hasn't been told about Mordechai Blui. I want you to tell—you know, people are listening to us, each of whom has their own struggles: mental, health, educational, family struggles —everyone has their own burden. >> Let’s peel back the thin veneer for a moment, the Mordechai who always knows how to answer everything, the Mordechai who is always on the side of justice, the Mordechai who knows how to corner every interviewer. Come, come, I want to hear the vulnerable side, the struggle that no one knows about. You grew up as a child in Jerusalem, and it was then... >> At the age of six months. >> At the age of six months, tell the story. >> I was struck, I caught the polio virus. It wasn't because of the first one, the big epidemic in the country, it was because of the second. >> What year is that roughly? >> 1957. >> And there was no vaccine then? >> There was a vaccine, and according to what was told to me—they didn't talk about it at home—my uncle, a great saint, Rabbi Avraham Rosenberger, who helped my mother a lot...my mother...it was between two vaccines, something like that, between two doses, and there was some mistake. Suddenly I got a high fever. My father wasn't in the area at all, my father was then in... >> In the south. >> No, no, he was at Diskin, which was then, for me, outside the city. >> At Diskin, on Givat Shaul street. >> Yes, yes, he was an educational counselor at Diskin then. >> The Diskin Orphanage. >> Yes, yes, yes. >> That building still exists today. At the entrance, my uncle wanted to go to what was then Shaare Zedek Hospital, still on Jaffa Street. >> Jaffa Street. >> And from there he ran to... >> You were a six-month-old baby, six months old, and from there he ran to the Belzer Rebbe who was in Katamon. The Belzer Rebbe, that... >> The holy Rabbi from Belz, and my uncle tells me that he thought for a second about the consequences for them. >> Will he survive this? >> Will he survive this? Because back then , there were few who had this brain damage who survived and didn't pass away. And it damaged the muscles in my brain, the part that operates the muscles of the left leg. And from a young age, a series of surgeries, hospitalizations, I was a little less exposed to the outside world because I spent quite a few months sometimes in hospitals. At first, I walked on crutches, and after that, thank God, I threw the crutches away and a situation arrived where I grew up as a young man, and then I would care for the youth during "Ben Hazmanim." Today there are associations and unions, and I don't know what else, so back then we organized trips for the boys during " Ben Hazmanim." I would walk 10 kilometers a day on foot, climbing mountains, going up trails, and visiting villages. >> While you were dealing with a limp? >> Yes, yes, certainly, walking with a limp and thank God for the years, but apparently in the end somehow post-polio arrived and I also had some problem with the illness recently that made it so I can barely move, but the mouth and brain are still sharp as a razor. >> Yes, because we changed our ways...wait , what? Yes, one moment. >> What is the emotional part? >> Yes, when I was a little boy of nine, I formed a group in the neighborhood, I felt...For children and youth, not one or two children passed through my hands , but tens of thousands of Jewish children who today are already grandfathers in various frameworks. At first, it was very much dealing with the Ezra movement, where I was the branch manager in Petah Tikva, and I didn't just steer 300 children from Haredi homes not to go to Ezra, but to go to holy yeshivas. >> Yes. >> And to this day I know them. After that , I continued in a small Sephardic yeshiva; I was at the age of teaching, and then Haim Friedlander, the well-known Mashgiach from Ponevezh, whom I was privileged to study with in my youth... >> Asked me to come and be a teacher in a Cheder for 10 years, I was there in the Cheder as a teacher. >> You teach in a Cheder? >> Yes, and I established the morning prayer there, and they really loved it. I would tell stories in the Jerusalemite style, it is always fascinating. >> Yes, it wasn't just once or twice that the administrators would be angry because suddenly they heard dancing and banging on the tables, and joy. I had to tell them that I finished some Tosafot there, and thank God they understood that, so we are dancing now out of joy, what is the problem? Never mind. >> But you, aside from just Hebrew, it's not...you were a teacher. 10 years, 10 years working with a Cheder, it’s not simple. After that, for some reason, Rav Yankel didn't...The inspector called me: "Come, come to Chinuch Atzmai." And then I was the assistant principal of a Talmud Torah for 13 years in Rishon LeZion with a dear Jew named Rav Moshe Kaner, who was one of the Tehran children, similar to the Tehran children, he grew up by the Rav of Ponevezh, a Ruzhin Hasid from home. And after that I became an inspector, responsible for all 8th grades in the country, guiding them to yeshivas. And you ask, you ask what I do? Hundreds and hundreds of students—not me alone , Chinuch Atzmai also has people who finish this—every year we bring most of the children finishing 8th grade in the Kiruv system into holy yeshivas, even when at home they barely keep Shabbat. >> By the way, how many a year, what is the average number of students? >> That move to yeshivas? >> From regular state education to holy yeshivas, actually. >> Not state, from Kiruv schools, Shuvu, and the like. Yes, not Chinuch Atzmai, there is the Kiruv system from here to there and to wherever you want, thank God. >> We are talking about hundreds. >> Yes. >> Wait, now these won't go to the army, so who, who saved soldiers from not going to the army, me or the fanatics? I always tell the zealots this; my father used to say it, being a zealot today is to fight the Zionists, today it's about building one more institution and another and another Jewish child, it's within my educational framework for outreach, which is our life's work. Although they let me go, I'm already retired. >> Where did they let you go from? >> From the education system itself. >> They let you go. >> I reached age 67, I'm retired. >> But at least there are terms, or did they do all kinds of things to you? >> Wait, I remained in the field and I work together with the activists operating on this issue. As much as I can, I just established, my partner and I, my friend and I, established the framework that is called. We started " Fathers and Sons" over 20 years ago. >> Rabbi Yotkovsky. Eliezer Atkovsky. >> Yes. >> He is, he is a turbo engine on, on energy of, I don't know what. And we rose together under the leadership and guidance of our teacher Rabbi Steinman, and there we reach tens of thousands of children. They have 60,000 children in these frameworks, who study with their father every Sabbath, and during the vacation breaks we provide solutions. Four times a year we find a "reka" for the family that includes, uh, a, a, a CD, already. Gifts, whole sets, and thank God we manage to reach tens of thousands of Haredi Jews. >> Could it be that you are simply... >> By the way, I am not political. >> Yes. >> Not a circle, the types of groups and communities of this organization. >> You are actually... >> Just that I have also been with the Mishmeret HaKodesh and education for over almost 30 years. >> Oh, and here there is the battle over the, over the contents, I am with you on this matter, the question is what form... >> You start right away with my negative, Mishmeret HaKodesh and education is my job. >> Do you understand music? Let's start with that, do you understand... >> I will immediately return to you, this job of it is positive. >> To arrange bathing and vacation spots in a kosher way for the public, this I can testify, I can, I can testify that you send me and others every year before the vacation breaks, you go down to the field for every place, including closing on the Sabbath. >> Quite a few of the biggest places in the country that closed on the Sabbath, I had to work with, with the Sabbath rabbis. >> Now there is also the part of, I already received at the time of the leaders of Israel, the Steipler, Shechter was involved in it, this, the fear of breaking the walls, you received... >> From whom did you receive the appointment? >> From the leaders of Israel, from our teacher, the Posek of the generation, Rabbi Wosner, who accompanied us closely. >> The Posek of the generation, Rabbi Nissim Karelitz. >> After them, Rabbi Zilberman, Rabbi Yisrael Rosenberg. >> They called you and said to you, "Rabbi Modya, you will be our representative to supervise the topic of music." Now yes, you give kashrut certifications to all sorts of things and approvals and deal with it, let's see now where it's possible to create, and until this very moment we are busy all the time with the subject of how not, how Haredi music doesn't drag the youth to bad places. In the past, there were joint events, men and women. Separately, God forbid what happened during the breaks. Because the troubles that happen afterwards, we in Mishmeret HaKodesh know. Not that I handle personal problems. Yes. Rabbi Sheli Elivash is the secretary, he is the secretary of the Mishmeret and he handles it, and we know what is happening. Down to the styles and I receive feedback. I get calls from rabbis 'sons, I get calls from yeshiva supervisors—keep going, try as much as possible to stop it, it's good, keep it focused. >> I know there is this generation and there is this generation's needs. >> Sweetheart, I want to talk to you about this matter. Listen, come on, it is absolutely clear that the music in certain parts and certain areas is going to bad places. Even this past Chol HaMoed Sukkot, 5783, I saw things that made me shudder, and I really want to dedicate a column—bless you that you still have this sensitivity—I want to dedicate a column to this matter. But it could be that in certain circumstances, when you don't allow it, when you fight against performances for yeshiva boys only or all sorts of music events that are sober—you know, maybe it's not the "best" with the air you're used to, but still, there's nothing to be done. The generation needs music. I can tell you from the editorial desk. When we put a singer on the cover, there is a rush, there is interest; people look for the cover even before the newspaper has reached the stores. >> This is the problem. >> This is the problem. We approve, and today there is the association that gives yeshiva boys from all the local authorities...... >> the singing and the music. But in a real combination with Siyum HaShas, not where the singer stands at the forefront. The idolatry and the worship , that's not the problem—he told him, in Israel, also this matter, I agree with you, but I think, I will tell you what I think. >> I will tell you what I think: the way is not to block and lock and try to eradicate the phenomenon, because it will not be eradicated, but rather to present it correctly. You know what would happen if they didn't stop it at the gate? You know that there are letters from all the greats of Israel? >> What—what will be eradicated is the phenomenon of the music of, of, having singers who today fill up halls—it will happen. The question is, will we do it...... >> in a kosher, sober way? >> Here you see, there was in Beit Shemesh now, at the end of the previous Bein HaZmanim, an event of the association's completions—there are all sorts, there are all the time, every municipality... >> Let me ask a simple question: haven't the horses already bolted from the stable? That is my question. I mean, aren't you fighting yesterday's war? You are fighting in 5783 a war whose method of fighting is perhaps suited to 5757. Explain. >> It's true that I told you at the beginning that I am indeed, ah, ah, ah, a Jew with a taste of the past, conservative, stubborn—and what else did I say? >> A wise liberal. >> A wise liberal. I know, I, I have a connection with this youth, and in our day, by the way, there is an answer for this youth who calls. >> By the way, do you understand music? Are there songs you like? What do you sing at the Shabbat table? Only " Bereichu"? >> No, no, I sing, I, I chant the zemirot that are in the siddur, yes, but okay, my sons more—what do you listen to when you are on the road in your Subaru ? I really like the clarinet music of the Meron melodies. >> Again, I really like it too, but you understand that most of the—cantorial music, please—most of the generation is not there, unfortunately. By the way , cantorial music is, is a beautiful, beautiful field, Meron melodies melt the heart and soul, I really connect, I am aware that today there are young singers, no... >> There is Ben Tzion, there is Moti Shapiro, there is...I understand that Morti Shbeitze is a close friend of mine, he asks me everything, and if I don't know the answer, I go to consult the Torah giants. He calls you to consult. >> He is always building his producer, and that is why he is preserved; to this day, I really love his style. >> By the way, were you just...look, to be honest, he is truly one of the greatest singers of our time, a man of emotion. There was some wedding of a certain singer abroad recently... >> It was according to all the rules, and they tried to capture a camera angle to show it wasn't. >> Meaning, would you have signed off on this performance? He got his corner and his place, and he performs quite a bit at weddings; he is careful to request [ things] as required. >> And there was minimal separation there, come on. >> You can't tell a person who is offered 100,000 shekels, "Don't go because maybe there's a problem." >> Well, in cases of great loss, they permitted it. >> No, not great loss, it’s not a great loss, it needs to be more logical. Anyway, let’s leave that for a moment . >> Well, you don't understand, but regarding music—I am in favor of music, but I don't like the music of singers who make up words. >> Only words from the source. >> I’ll put it bluntly: they sing about the Divine Presence while actually intending [to sing] about the Divine Presence. >> Heaven forbid. >> I said it, yes? Know this. Come on, they sing songs that come from secular realms. By the way, there is no...I mentioned this to you in the past, but I explain it all the time: there is no ritual impurity in a song. How does that relate to Nigun, the logic of a great Rabbi? And he, he is a great musician, it was his family, and by the way, everything is Rabbi Danny. No, wait, but the Vilna Gaon would say that the wisdom of music is among the most sublime and exalted. By the way, the Hasidim took that and used it to hold onto Jews to this day. You see, I have someone young who comes from a large Hasidic sect, someone who has been in touch with me a lot lately, he is without a yarmulke, but he sings all the songs of his childhood as he heard them. >> By the way, the Hasidim disagree with you; you say there is no holiness in music, when it is known to be the most ... >> Wait, what is the ability of a melody to influence, to influence... >> Perhaps you didn't hear me correctly, I said there is no ritual impurity in music. >> Certainly. >> A song cannot become ritually impure, but there are songs, the pounding of trance music that comes from the lower aspects of the Africans to arouse the passions, and I have read many, many articles by psychologists about this. >> There is power of influence, and my wife has been in the field of special education, which touches on psychology, for two decades; you can see by the people when you enter a wedding what the style of music is by the way they dance. >> You see, I recently saw some footage that touched my heart very much—you see a wedding of some young Haredi man with all the trances and dances, and it's something crazy, it looks like...I won't even mention how they danced there like goats in a pen. >> And then you see, the camera shifts to some small side room on the edge of the world, where you see the in-laws dancing to holy songs, and it's very sad—meaning, the family reached an arrangement that inside they would dance the... >> You know the performance at weddings, Grandpa just can't stand it anymore and runs from the music segment. >> Like he goes outside, and by the way, that's why I say the question is, how do you make it...the question is how to make it compelling. >> But honey, you've lost the younger generation. The younger generation is not with you. How many are in the younger generation? Do you know who it is? How many? Almost 100,000. Even if it's 100,000, how many do you know who go to shows? 2,000? 3,000? How many do you know? Why do you minimize the generation? Don't diminish, don't... don't minimize the phenomenon. Music is very influential today, even in the yeshiva world. Even when I was a young man in yeshiva, do you know what they heard in the room? >> What did they hear for years? >> Cantorial music, yes, you're fine. >> Cantorial, fine, cantorial also wasn't the... >> Sure, sure, the cantors knew how to sing the...[ >> Unintelligible words] themselves after they ate on Yom Kippur, what does it matter, forget it, let's talk... >> Well, in any case, it's clear to me that music is a tool and joy is a tool. I have seven children who are married with children. One of my children, I really love the style. Whenever I come home to them, they are always dancing. >> Most important. >> Ah, you know that during Corona, Rav Dov wrote a letter to keep music on at home. Do you remember that? >> Yes. Yes. >> Why? Always at the Shabbat table, we sit for hours and sing and sing and... >> One of the greats of the generation said that he would have been more successful in educating his children if he had had Shabbat hymns, if he hadn't rushed through the meal. Yes, you know what, I owe you a story. I used to visit Rav Shteinman often, "Our Holy Rabbi," I call him, and I know why I call him "Our Holy Rabbi." You can also call him "The Holy One of the generation." >> Yes, of course, but when he...Lies in bed. In his final hours, they arranged him neatly on the bed. They lowered his hand, arranged his hand, and it slipped below his waist. He signaled with his eyes to the assistants to lift his hands back up. Like "Our Holy Rabbi." >> Rabbeinu Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi. >> I heard that from the attendant. One day I came to him, and he says to me... "You spoke about the messes regarding the music." Yesterday I was at a seven-blessings in Vizhnitz, I saw on the stairs, yes, young men dancing, happy, full of... >> Yes, he envied the Hasidim who have a Hanukkah party, he said that. >> No, no, no, why don't we? >> Yes. >> You told him, "We are in favor," I'm going to do it now, this was before Sukkot, "We are going to hold a big event during the intermediate days." >> There is documentation of Rabbi Amnon Yitzhak entering Rav Shteinman's room and trying to get him to issue a ban against some singer, against singers, and he says... " >> I don't know what CDs are, I don't know him," evading, don't... >> When he doesn't want to, he doesn't know; when he wanted to, he knew the generation. >> Yes. >> And then I say to Rabbi Shiman, Leizer Yutkovsky and I, we will hold an event, whoever comes will come, if it's fine with you I will come, and then he calls me to lean in, okay, but how, yes, I'll lean in, I don't commit to dancing. >> And he really came. >> Yes, by the way, you know, you see if Rabbi Dov comes to events and gets up to dance, Rabbi Dov himself, Dov is a descendant of a Chassidic family, he signals with his hand and stirs up the singing, he doesn't finish, he is the most profound there is, after that some words of encouragement and a message, we haven't even talked about the subject of the elections. >> With the boys to set the mood. >> So you, you hear cantorial music and melodies from Meron and that's it. >> Chassidic melodies. >> Very much. >> Chabad melodies. >> More than anything, the authentic Chabad melodies, there's nothing like them, people sing them and don't know it's actually a Chabad melody. >> Yes. >> Because you know, anyone who knows, knows it's Chabad. >> It's from the Baal HaTanya, one of the ten melodies of the Alter Rebbe. >> I don't know about the Alter Rebbe, but it's a known Chabad one, besides we are a Chassidic family, I'm a son-in-law, I didn't continue the dynasty. >> In the lineage of the Admor my Saba was . >> So one must say. >> My Saba's daughter was a great-granddaughter of the Divrei Chaim and. >> So your children are Sanz-Klausenburg. >> Sanz-Klausenburg and from all of Berditchev, whatever you want, and in my house there was always such an atmosphere, such a Chassidic atmosphere , my children with shtreimels. >> So listen, let's talk about this for a second, listen, in this matter, you know, they say the Torah and education, I don't know, okay, there are those who relate to it differently, but one thing I must say that I find myself, ah. >> Truly appreciating, not embarrassed, the opposite, with great appreciation. >> And that is the fact that you are really very liberal in how you raised your children, notice your son Rabbi Uri, by the way, my good friend, full disclosure, he is. >> He is the third, by the way, among the sons. >> He is a Chassid in every way, even, even, even a Chabad Mashpia in a sense. >> But I, he, I will tell you more. >> Your son is a spokesman for the faction within the Jerusalem Faction, the ideological faction of. >> That's Rabbi Yehuda Blau, meaning a very diverse family, you are, you are, you are a bitter rival of the faction, you attack the Jerusalem Faction everywhere, and your son is a spokesman for the faction. >> He also attacks the faction. There, I'm already, there the balance of power is a matter of, he doesn't participate in protests, he is a student of the Ponevezh Yeshiva, the part of Rabbi Shmuel Markovitz, and there he grew and there he flourished. >> What does a Shabbat table look like at your place when Rabbi Uri the Chabadnik and Rabbi Yehuda the Faction-member and Rabbi Motke sits above them, what do they talk about, fire and brimstone. >> Making merry. >> Not throwing plates. >> Everyone, by the way, is in one outlook with us of what is called conservatism, conservatism. >> Each one is conservative in his own way . >> Yes, now tell me, you had Uri. >> Yes. >> He grew up in Lithuanian yeshivas, grew up in a Lithuanian cheder, got married, went that way, he is a walking encyclopedia on Chassidism. >> But I heard him somewhere this Shabbat. >> An encyclopedia isn't enough, but he lives Chassidism, this Shabbat I heard him in a sermon to the public, there was a crowd with different styles, he knows how to speak both Lithuanian and Chassidic, he is close to the Lasker. >> Who is one of the greatest, wisest Admorim of the generation. >> Look up to him, yes. >> He is also a bit aligned with Chabad; after all, our uncle is Rabbi Tuvia Blau, one of the greatest Chabad rabbis . >> Rabbi of the Chabad community in Neve Yaakov, who established the Chabad rabbis until... >> Not always, why until? Yes. >> And he personally has 300 letters from the Rebbe. >> True. >> Wow. I am very happy that he knows, by the way. >> I... >> He speaks in secular high schools, in the stronghold of the Left, in their own language. >> Wait, but what... >> And he speaks and gives a class at Ohr HaChaim every week in Beitar to the toughest guys, true, I am privileged. >> And he speaks and speaks at the Chabad tzum (farbrengen). >> Moderates the event. >> Okay, I just don’t want one thing— that he deviates ideologically. >> To those who try to provoke and rebel against Haredi Judaism, what we do in Brisk—I send my wife, mainly because she listens to him. Yes, by the way, I have another son, Yossi, very close to Rabbi Sternbuch, he grew up there in the yeshiva. >> Beautiful. >> And I have a son, Yinkele, who is a Rosh Kollel, beautiful. >> Beautiful, also Feiner, his children are in Tiferet. >> And he is the son-in-law of Rabbi Deitch from the Neve Yaakov rabbis, and he himself is a Torah scholar. >> So first of all, I will say that I really do know Uri, and I am also privileged to share with him—wait, wait. >> He is a nice guy. >> Who knows, by the way, he makes the Shabbat table—he makes it joyful. >> Obviously, because he is a Hasid. >> No, he knows how to—he knows how to do impressions, everything is fine. >> Remotik, so first of all, I want to tell you. >> He is from Meron, by the way, you didn't know that, first of all. >> Why is he called Uri? After my grandfather, Rabbi Uri Rosenberg, who was a man of Meron, who used to go up to Meron with donkeys. >> Yes, yes. >> And in one year that was, that Gbaum was, he was with a woman on Friday. He didn't have anywhere to sleep, so he sat with the two boys of Avrumchu and Shimon Rosenberg from the Misamdim, under a tree, all of Shabbat on a rock. I know Shimon. Shimon was my counselor in the Yeshivat HaMisamdim, he used to distribute the "sasanim." Today, the generation of today doesn't know what the sasanim were. It was in such a bag with a little spoon that he would make with food coloring, but he—I liked it —he made the slush. >> But true, but I have to tell you that he—he waged a struggle against bicycles, that children shouldn't ride bikes in Jerusalem, there was—there wasn't. >> I had a bike, I would hide it. Anyway, he was a fine Jew, he was the Gabbai of the Mishorim Stiblach for years. He is the grandfather of Rabbi Uri, also the other grandfather, they are students of Shmil Deitch. Shmil Deitch was a concept in Jerusalem, "Davis Oizen." >> Rabbi Shimon still walks—people won't understand what we are talking about now, anyway. >> As for Rabbi Uri, I know him and we give a class together in Beitar Illit, by the way, the public is invited. He gives [the class] at Vizhnitz, I give it at Tanya, and every day there is a different class. And thank God, I call on the public to join as much as possible, a person from afar should come. In general, the matter of setting times for Torah is that you pay for a book—that is the most important anchor. >> Not only writing, by the way, you are also a reader—you are meticulous. Where did you learn that grammar? I grew up in Jerusalem, in the Hagidim Gereshi student of the city, so. >> You know, I was on Shabbat in Safed in some place and suddenly I see a Hasid approach and read from the Torah the most meticulously in the world. I asked him, "Hello." >> I’ve almost never met Hasidic boys, especially Jerusalemite children, who know how to read the newspaper, not just others' opinions as some innovation; listen, in that sense, it’s not just ours, but we maintain it. >> We also maintain it with the Etz Chaim order, we maintain it roughly, but did you fail in your education in the sense that your children are not Lithuanians like you, not all of them anyway, and each one chose their own path in serving God? Did you ever have a moment where you felt a failure in that regard ? >> Did you know that R’ Moshe Blau was Agudah, and R’ Yankev’s grandfather was Neturei Karta, R’ Yankev? >> Your grandfather, the son of R’ Moshe ? >> The son of Moshe from... >> So he opposed the Agudah? >> He didn’t oppose it. >> So, in the Blau family, every generation kicks against the generation before it? >> My father was Agudah. >> I was educated in Lithuanian yeshivas, Degel. >> And your son is Hasidic, so, so that’s the Jerusalemite style. >> That there is. >> Everyone chooses one, chooses a path in serving God. My grandfather, R’ Yankev, also had 11 children, each one something different. >> This one became Karliner, this one Zvhiller, this one Toldos Aharon, this one... >> Chabad. >> That’s fine, completely fine, I have no problem with that; only one thing— the walls must be protected. >> Rami, yes, we don’t notice how time flies, and it is very fascinating. I want to, regardless, I want to...no, we will get to the elections. I want to return to this place, which I believe will give tremendous strength to many children, teenagers, and parents who are struggling. You are describing to me, you said it really in passing, two very significant struggles that you dealt with in life: one as a child, and something else you mentioned—I would love to hear about it soon—something related more to recent years. But as a child, you dealt with the second one, with the...this great difficulty, the difficulty of physical disability. >> Physical difficulty. >> Missing a lot of school because of hospitalizations. >> Now, now we know. >> To be exposed to the outside world, that’s when television began when I was in hospitals as a child and a young boy. >> And you come... >> And I can, and I, and I know that from home I am forbidden to sit there and see, to encounter Shabbat desecration around me. >> And you are alone in the medical institution. >> But because of that, I received, I toughened up. >> And mostly I want to ask you, but Motke , we know what children are, we know what Jerusalemite children are, and we know what children of the past are; children sometimes like to laugh at a friend who looks different. Did you suffer insults? True, I grew up in a not-so-simple environment. >> In a neighborhood that had begun to secularize then. >> The friends, from the company, less of a Jerusalemite concept, they make Bar Mitzvahs for friends. >> Right. >> When I was a kid, there was the one who would sing the German song, the one who would say the speech, the gift. >> The one who would sing "Yomama."" >> Yomama, Yomama." >> And because they knew I was limited, so what, what would I do? They would take some, some old lady, call her Mrs. Eisenbach, a good "Poyker"(drummer). >> And I would be the "Poyker" at Bar Mitzvahs. >> You were the "Poyker"? >> I was the "Poyker." >> You were the competitor of Pesach Krishevsky? >> I followed him the whole year, I loved it. In any case, thanks to my parents who didn’t spoil me, and not for a moment—but they empowered you. >> They empowered me and let me feel like everyone else. I grew up and left the house after the last surgery. Still on crutches, I went out to study in yeshivas. >> Wow. >> And I advanced, and I advanced, and I advanced. Thank God, I got married. >> And for a moment, you didn't feel sorry for yourself. You didn't want to feel. >> I never felt it. Only I know. When I was young, in the "Ketana"[yeshiva], back in Lapiot, there was what was called a Purim newspaper. >> Yes. So someone wrote a sentence there that I remember to this day, it's talking about 55 years ago, maybe. If a cat didn't have a tail. The world would turn upside down; if Mota Gur had two healthy legs, the world would also turn upside down. >> I thought the opposite, that maybe you compensate for the difficulty, for the limitation, through... >> By the way, people who don't know me physically don't think I have any limitation at all, because I don't project that today. I...a few years ago , the illness was discovered in me somewhere. Thank God, it disappeared completely, but because of various medications—not chemo and not radiation, but there were some medications that caused me a problem, and I had to undergo several leg surgeries. And since then, I've been trying to move back forward, not how they say, uh, to submit, I mean, you are in the last few years, while you are performing and active. >> I went through. My life, I went through very difficult things. I lost massive amounts of weight. I was forced one day to go to the ER because of problems caused by the medications. The health is not easy at all. Thank God, people almost don't know about it. Even during the time of interviews, I was in the middle of treatments, and sometimes I gave interviews two days after surgery, while lying down, still connected to all sorts of things, and I'm on the phone giving an interview. >> Amazing, this matter is truly an inspiration, and it’s time to talk about it, and there is more, and there is another matter. >> That people don't know about you, you founded an organization for the hearing impaired. >> How did you get into that? >> Yes, I didn't found it. The organization was founded, almost closed , and because we have impairments in the family, hearing impairment, and I was close to the subject, together with a dear Jew who passed away, Rabbi Shimon Levi, and another Jew, Rabbi Mizrahi, we took command of this organization called the Shmia organization, which deals not only with hearing impairment, but with disabilities in general. And it has branches in various places in the country, in Jerusalem (that our collective "Shema" of Eisenstein will hear), and us. And today, the subject of the hearing impaired is much simpler than back then because of the cochlear implant, and parents need to know that the moment you identify it in time, or a cochlear implant or a hearing aid from a good institute, the child advances and reaches wonderful achievements without feeling anything. This is one of the organizations that I founded. I, I am in several more non-profits. Today I am the CEO of the Toda organization, which I have been with for years, since its founding. I was responsible for the youth, I have been the CEO for the last few years. >> And we have about 700 Torah teachers who go out every day to give Torah lessons in the field. >> Yes, in the meantime, we do activities for women, activities for children, summer camps, and all sorts of things, I am still working. We are advancing with the partner, Rabbi Lazar Kovski; I am basically in charge, supervising, and... >> I'm never bored. >> And many people turn to me for help. >> Sweetheart, one more question before we get to the elections and thus conclude this very fascinating conversation. There are those who ask, Motka, aren't you conflicted? On one hand, you educate the generation, preach, and stand in the breach on every matter, including technology. On the other hand , Motka, you are the most connected to technology. You have a smartphone, one might even say you’re addicted to it, you post statuses, you live on the web. And on the other hand, you lead the most conservative line. How do these two things reconcile? >> As we said before: conservative, stubborn, liberal, wise. "Make for yourself a partition." >> Two partitions, actually. Yes. >> Yes, it is written that every generation must create its own partitions. Yes. >> Our predecessors said one must speak to the generation in its own language. Today, the platform to speak to the generation is this. For many years I had emails—to this day, by the way, I have hundreds of people who receive things from me—sometimes on the weekly portion, sometimes other things. I saw that it was moving to this area, and in the Study Hall, people are strong. There are people who are already in the working world, and to them, I will reach. That is why we created the protected smartphone of " Netivei." There is Hadran, there is more of a Karlin approach—I know, so here—but I have a protected phone, blocked, not open, only for things that are necessary. >> For livelihood needs. >> Ah, not livelihood. I wouldn't say livelihood. If I need to reach banks, if I need anything, I receive documents to approve on the fly—I don't have a laptop or a computer with me. This is basically my office, my entire office. And by the way, my number is— >> I would say, Motka, for the needs of livelihood and educating the generation . >> And no, by the way, this is my number. It's the number for the first Kosher floor; check it out, because I had the privilege, with Rabbi Mi-Chorodi—may God grant him a full recovery—to establish the first Kosher floor. Regarding statuses: at first, we didn't know what it was. Suddenly I discovered that if I started with some guy, an insurance agent from Netanya, quite the prankster—his name is Yonatan Levy, son of a great author who went to very extreme places—he started sending people to me who want to hear what I have to say. And then the moment arrived when we saw that the smartphone was about to enter, and we needed to prepare and set up the partitions. We are in a voluntary ghetto, even in a voluntary ghetto, whether it’s the Kosher phones, which is excellent for those who don't need more—they shouldn't have more than voice calls. So we said, let's do it. It wasn't easy . Netiv invested massive efforts to block—anyone who understands knows that blocking a phone from certain apps or browsing is a monumental task, with Divine assistance, because not everyone , not Google and not others, wants to cooperate with you so you can suddenly block things. And we have the protected phone, and then in my status, I throw in a little bit of action, a little bit of this, but in between, I insert Torah . >> Wait, but how do you make sure the content is Judaism? >> But how do you— >> When I tell a story about something that happened, I link it to a lesson or a teaching of our Sages, Israel. >> Motka, but how do you avoid giving it legitimacy? A person who has been fortunate enough to remain guarded might say to himself: I envy someone who manages to be abstinent, yes, from technology, and says: If one gets stuck in a box with no view, and suddenly someone validates the forbidden—what is this? Why shouldn't it cause him, heaven forbid, that a person called Moshe Beloy (he is also a public figure , he is a person, he is a person who is active in many fields) brings it, sees it? At first, it is very difficult. I really had to remove the protected device. Today, everyone knows it is protected. And there is no one at my bench in the synagogue—no one has it, most of my synagogue doesn't have such devices. By the way, we don't have a synagogue group on WhatsApp, we have " Bot-Tzafon" on the phone. And that's how I live in a community where there isn't any, but whoever needs it and works and is engaged. >> Well, >> He has it. >> Well, let's talk politics, it's called the finale, and I want to open this chapter, the political chapter, with a simple question. You have an old friend who for many years you have been proud of the friendship between you, and you meet him every day and pray Mincha with him every day at the Degel HaTorah offices. His name is still Member of Knesset Rabbi Moshe Gafni. 38 years a Knesset member until one day he gets a notification, by the way, in a letter in the mail that some*avrech*pushed to the door. Why in the mail? Make it more dramatic. Nu, >> Your political career as a Knesset member is ending. How did you, first of all as a friend, feel when you heard? >> Good? So let's answer the first first, the last last. First of all, we don't talk politics, in my eyes, I grew up with this. The Knesset, public servants , that's not politics. After all, Moshe Beloy dealt with this, uh. >> Of course. It is a tool to be a member of the Polish Sejm. Soon his memorial. Who left no seed of his existence, and everyone needs to remember this and. I was among the representatives of the Diaspora of Israel until Rabbi Shach... >> Okay, let's talk about Rabbi Gafni. >> Yes. >> Rabbi Moshe Rafael Gafni, head of the Zichron Eliyahu community in Ofakim. >> Former, yes. Maybe he will return to that position. Then he was called by Rabbi Shach for the purpose of establishing Degel HaTorah. Rabbi Shach knew him because he often came to consult with the Rabbi. After that, Rabbi Shach also added Rabbi Avraham Ravitz because he wanted someone who is more, more. Known, Moshe Gafni didn't say a word, that he moved while running to place number two. He is a faithful representative of the*shlach*, an old fox, a man of very sound outlook. What? That others haven't learned yet. But. I heard rumors from him already at the beginning of the summer, that he isn't sure he wants to continue to be a Knesset member and run every five minutes to... >> He didn't want to. >> Correct. >> You know that, you know that this is not what his environment is broadcasting, it is not true, his real environment, which is me and his other staff assistants, know otherwise, and then. >> I saw that in the movement's official bulletin you came out against the assistants of a member, and then the movement's bulletin came out, it is the movement's bulletin now, but there was a dilemma, yes no yes no, we believed that experience has status, after all age does its part, he remains chairman of Degel HaTorah, there is no Degel HaTorah without Moshe Gafni, Moshe Gafni is Degel HaTorah and he will sit in the Knesset. >> What do you mean he will sit in the Knesset? >> By the way, I told you that I am not a ... >> You have never stepped foot in the Knesset. >> I don't enter the Knesset, it's a filthy, profane place, doesn't matter what, and he will give the...he will manage it, because the real party chairman, not some kind of...and Uri Maklev, a dear friend of mine since our yeshiva days, I've known him... >> The greatest of the assistants, to put it in the history of Haredi politics. >> They thought it appropriate to give the public the feeling that they are making changes, because it was easy in the last term, whatever happens, there will be a role for Degel HaTorah that Uri Maklev can fill, he will fill it, and from there he will continue with his obsession to help everyone, because there is no such thing as a child standing at a bus stop and the bus is 10 minutes late, he knows Maklev, you spoke excellently, wait a second, you spoke about assistants. >> Wait a second, the assistants came, yes . >> And tried to stop the move, because they understood that if their boss is not exactly a Knesset member, then maybe they will lose status, maybe they will lose their job, I don't know what. And they tried to pressure them not to agree, they wouldn't want to, they wouldn't want to. The change. The change was made by Rabbi Daub, as he says in the recording, with the full agreement of Rabbi Moshe Hillel. And they told the Knesset members this and asked to present them with a letter of appreciation in the most respectful way , not a termination letter, a letter of the highest appreciation. And their assistants said: Don't accept it, don't take it. So you can't always call the Knesset member himself, because often the assistant picks up the phone, and the assistant says: Don't put it under the door. I...under the door, nobody... and there wasn't even a gram of disrespect here. I am ready, whoever hears and runs, I say, I will take and I will...one needs...Nobody disrespected anyone here and nothing was done in expulsion. Everything was done through discussion. And here, new figures have entered here, you are a yeshiva guy, what do you say about Dudi Zaltz? >> Dudi Zaltz is a public representative of the highest caliber, a person who is ... >> Now take, take, take that, what's his name, Yehuda, Yehuda Vishfish. >> The man built it from scratch. >> You spoke about the move like you always do, excellently, now I want to ask you, didn't you feel any pain, after all Rabbi Gafni, you know... >> It took me a few days to recover when I knew it was heading that way, when it happened it took me a few days to recover. >> Did it hurt you? >> It didn't hurt me, I said that's it, they are moving to apartments, soon I too, I don't even know from where, but from where to throw you out, honey. >> I don't know from where, now I want to say who is leading towards the elections. >> Ravoysi. >> By the way, what is your opinion before the final message, the trouble, what is your opinion on the parties nipping at the heels of the traditional Haredi parties? There is Leitner’s party, what do they call it, the Haredi public , on the liberal side, and there is Tzeva Shachor on the extreme conservative side. >> That. >> Listen, and there is another party in the south nipping at the heels of Shas. What do you say to all of...but, but I mean, let's talk for a second about the ... >> Let's talk for a second about Leitner. Yes, this is a phenomenon of guys who say, "We don't find ourselves represented, the establishment doesn't provide us with an answer." Let me answer you. They say to them, and on the other hand, Tzeva Shachor is also a public that says, "The politicians haven't proven themselves," the draft law, arrests, and so on. Give us your take on this. >> Yes, listen closely. An election general, who am I...giant. >> With the megaphone. >> With us, no, you don't even know yet. First, there is in Israel, in my home ... >> My father managed a headquarters in the room I slept in, and sent us on errands , and we handed out flyers and such. >> And the extremists yelled at me and tried to blow up the lanterns my father put up. >> Yes. >> Afterwards, for decades, I managed the Beitar headquarters, which was called the "Active Headquarters." >> Yes. >> And I understand politics and I understand elections. >> Good, now let's go back to the present. >> Wait, now I look...I have also aged. So many failed attempts have been made; every election cycle, someone tries to set up a party and nip at the heels of the central parties that are under the great leaders of Israel in the Haredi public. First, a party not under the leadership of our rabbis and teachers has no right to exist and no merit. Second thing, not everyone who defines themselves as Haredi, or "Haredi-Haredi ," is someone who was born into it, it's not inherited. As we said, if you are able to set up a party and there are no first-tier Torah greats above you, don't tell me you found some dirt in a high-school yeshiva. You are not Haredi. You likely voted for Ben-Gvir in the previous elections, before that for Liberman, for the Likud. We know it , we see it. You live in Beitar; we don't see votes in Beitar for Liberman, we didn't see them, we don't see votes in Beitar......for Ben-Gvir. We see that in the Haredi public......there are families coming from Haredi backgrounds who want change, in any case. I say one thing, friends, there are two schools. There is what they say about the elections......the impure. Every ballot cast into the box is like throwing...... >> a stone to Mercury. >> To Mercury. >> And there is the other side, which is the majority, the number and structure of the great leaders of Israel since the Chazon Ish, the majority and all the great Torah figures since the Chazon Ish who said to sell tefillin to earn the right to vote. >> Yes, there are those who say it is a holy duty. Body of Torah. >> Yes. >> True, the Steipler said that voting was a... >> The Rav himself arranged the... >> Someone says yes, the reason doesn't matter. And if that is the spiritual side of the matter, the material side of the matter—a person who lives in the Haredi public, buys in the Haredi public, educates his children in the Haredi public, his family is in the Haredi public, his sons, his brothers, his grandsons, his uncles—it doesn't matter who—they are in yeshivas, in Bais Yaakov, in Shas education, in Beit Yosef, what does it matter where, in the chadarim—he needs to know he must strengthen only the Haredi public. If he’s already getting up and going to the polls, and if he’s going only to burn votes, I, Mutkovy, promise him that he will have a hell without air conditioning. Oh, I wanted to finish the idea, but it, it’s not, it’s not appropriate to end with something that... >> No, no, that’s the best ending. >> Yes. >> Gentlemen, so I will end this on a good note. >> Every ending on a good note, gentlemen, whoever votes for the Torah giants of Israel, especially the Admorim shlita, they promise him: "Banai, Chayei, U'Mezonei"–good children, not just children, children isn't the trick, that's not cats–healthy lives, not lives with illnesses, that is "Chayei," and "Mezonei" means prosperous livelihood. May Hashem help that anyone who puts a ballot for a Haredi party, and especially Gimel, which is pure Haredi, indeed shows and needs... >> Of course, it’s clearly understood if you... >> Yes, yes, I’m not saying Shas, I’m just saying that Shas brings, brings more votes, but whoever brings Gimel, they know he has declared, "Hashem is the G-d." >> Rabbi Mutkovy, I don't want to crown you with any title because "Rabbi Mutkovy" is the most important title, and especially I want to say I enjoyed and was moved by the personal stories you told about the struggle, because here you are, you stand out, you do, you influence with all the struggles, and that is a part that is a great inspiration. So thank you for being with us. >> Rabbi Aryeh Ehrlich. I also want to say a concluding remark. We disagreed on some things, but it was done in the form of a learned, serious discussion, on a high level, not the personal part here. >> And may the Holy One, Blessed be He, give us the strength to continue to do one thing. Each one in his role. To sanctify Heaven's name. That is our role in this world. Tzulgi ben Shtayur. >> Amen and Amen. May the Holy One, Blessed be He, strengthen us to continue in the straight path. Thank you for listening to "Meeting with Aryeh Ehrlich" from the Mishpacha Podcast. Thanks to the content editor Tehila Siton, the production manager Lea Goldstein, and the sound and video editors Avremi Weisel, Daniel Levin, and Hillel Helm. All the series and episodes are waiting for you on the Mishpacha website, on all podcast apps, and on the telephone line 077-2200. Extension 72. See you in the next episodes.