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שו"ת אהלי יעקב | הלכות רפואה בשבת- הגדרת פיקוח נפש | מו"ר הרב יעקב אריאל שליט"א
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הרב אריאל עוסק בבירור יסודות דין פיקוח נפש בשבת ובהגדרת המצבים שבהם נדחית השבת מפני הצורך הרפואי. מתוך סוגיות חז״ל ודברי הפוסקים נידונים גבולות הסכנה, מעמדה של הערכת הרופא, תחושתו של החולה וההכרעה במצבי ספק. לצד הדיון העקרוני נבחנות שאלות מעשיות הנוגעות להגעה לבית החולים, לבדיקות ולטיפולים רפואיים, למקרים של נשיכות, הכשות וחום גבוה, וכן לעבודתם של רופאים ואנשי צוות רפואי בשבת. מתוך כל אלה מתברר מקומו המרכזי של עקרון פיקוח הנפש בהלכה, המחייב אחריות, שיקול דעת ופעולה ללא היסוס במקום שיש בו חשש סכנה. לתרומות לישיבה לחצו https://www.yrg.org.il/?CategoryID=220 לקבלת תורת הישיבה בוואצאפ - https://bit.ly/whatsaap-rg למעקב אחרי הפייסבוק שלנו - https://www.facebook.com/YeshivatRama...
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Transcript
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It is highly recommended that religious
doctors and religious nurses work only
in religious settings. The problem is,
for their residency, they need a
specific place, like Tel Hashomer,
which is the most advanced hospital in
the country, to work in and get better
training. So, there’s no harm in
minimizing it as much as possible,
right? So yes, the doctor brings a
computer from home, a tablet, and works
with it.
So that solves only part of the
problems, but fundamentally, the
solution is for the hospital to be
prepared in advance to prevent problems
—everything that can be prevented
should be handled in advance.
Rabbi, if one needs to be hospitalized,
if one needs to go on Shabbat, if one
needs to go to the hospital on Shabbat,
go to the nearest and best hospital.
You, you have a life-threatening
situation, so you will go to the
nearest or the best place. You are
worried about yourself now, it is a
life-threatening matter, it could be
for a woman in labor who chooses the
first hospital, so she can prefer a
hospital. For her, a religious hospital
; if she has issues, she needs a
hospital that is something more
advanced. A woman in labor knows
hospitals, knows which ones are uh,
which hospitals are, yes, uh, that,
meaning that it is a specialized room
there, it is not, not less good than
any, any other place, it is a very high
level. Birth is something they know
well, everything is fine, just don’t
eat on Shabbat, only what is needed,
what is required.
But starting an IV
I won't go into details, there's no
choice, an IV injection needs to be
done in order to to put in, to put in
there, any patient entering the
hospital, the first thing they stick in
him
they stick something in him that can
later be connected to devices. This is
the first thing they do. It’s
impossible to do, impossible to do it
without
drawing blood. This, there is no choice
. I cannot, I cannot do it on Friday,
the attack happened on Shabbat, so
that’s an example of having to do it.
But they do it even when it’s not
required.
What?
They do it even when it's not required.
It’s routine. The one doing it
doesn’t know what you need; you might
end up in a department where you need
it, but what, what does he know in the
ER? The ER doesn’t know yet,
doesn’t yet know what the need is,
and whether it’s required or not. The
instructions are, by right, to stick it
in upon entering the hospital.
So that’s already a patient in danger
—I mean, you could say something like
that—it’s like a patient in danger,
not just that there’s no danger.
A person who comes to the ER, who comes
to the ER? A person doesn’t come to
the ER just like that; they come to the
ER
No, they come to the ER, it’s just
that they don’t know if it’s a
life-threatening situation yet.
Whoever comes to the ER comes because
it is a life-threatening situation.
Because the medicine knows, why do you
come to the ER? Go to other clinics,
what The ER is not a big treat,
afterwards you are there for seven or
eight hours until you are received. Who
, who likes the ER? It’s much better
to go to a clinic, which might solve
the problems, but phones and things can
be handled at home; you only go to the
ER when you have a serious medical
condition.
But, but, uh, if they take my vitals on
Shabbat, which are, I know, like things
that are standard, but they are not...
It could be that it is necessary, and
therefore...
So, if it is done by a non-Jew, there
is no problem with Torah prohibitions.
In a case where there is no danger, it
is permitted to be done by a rabbinic
prohibition, and therefore, it is true,
for rabbinic prohibitions even when
there is no danger, if he is sick, we
do it, but with Torah prohibitions,
that is the serious problem. We said
now, a...Drawing blood, based on the
Torah, if it is not necessary, but if
it is necessary, but how do you know in
advance? You know from the triage.
Therefore, there are things that cannot
be avoided. Like specifics, Religious
hospital staff try to minimize
Torah-prohibited acts; for rabbinic
acts, they are lenient and do
everything, actions that one would do
on a weekday, they should behave
normally. You said those are rabbinic,
permitted even for the sick, where
there is a perceived danger on a
weekday, things that are not possible
to skip, it is possible to forgo them,
but still, the matter of blood pressure
, pulse, and so on is important. A
blood test is already different; a
blood test is a Torah prohibition, they
draw blood, they need the blood. The
question is whether a blood test is
needed for everything, no? So here the
question is how much they need...In
order to prepare for a hospital, one
must be prepared with every single
detail. For example, if the sick person
wants them to play music for him or
something like that, if he needs it, he
needs...Very much strengthened, This is
by the law of saving a life. I will
tell you something, a Hasidic story:
The Rebbe of Modzitz, no, his
grandfather wanted to undergo, wanted
to have a knee surgery in Berlin, A
knee surgery is a difficult debate, it
was necessary...To anesthetize him, so
he said: No, don't anesthetize me, I
will focus on a musical composition and
through that, I will be in another
world. It's a pity, the memory is...
Very long, only a few people know this
melody, it was for Yom Kippur, 20
stanzas, truly a work that, he was
absorbed in the work and did not feel
the pain. Well, gentlemen, that is the
Modzitzer Rebbe, not me and not you.
The same applies to a person who ate or
drank poison, obviously it is
life-threatening, swallowing different
objects is all life-threatening.
Something stuck in his throat, If he
ate fish with bones, it is less, not
certain it is a throat emergency, it
depends on the bone, if it is choking
him it is different, but if it is just
pricking him, one can wait. I once had
a bone stuck in my throat on Shabbat, I
traveled by violating Shabbat, and they
said it was a minor scratch and that's
it. Regarding a dog bite, gentlemen, a
dog: If it is a known healthy dog, it
is not dangerous; an unknown dog has a
great fear of rabies, rabies is a very
dangerous disease. Like all animals,
all animals I don't know, cats, mice, a
bite from an animal has a fear of
infection, unless it is his animal, and
the owners know it is healthy.
Regarding animals, if it's a scratch or
a bite that's a deep wound, you must
fear infection; if it's from their
claws, it's a dangerous infection, you
must pay attention to that. So, if
it’s a neighbor's dog that you know
is healthy, and it hurts a little but
it’s not life-threatening, what if
it's an unknown dog? Any unknown animal
bite is considered a life-threatening
situation, it would be better to...
It would be better to drive electric
cars if I have an electric car at home.
Dog bite.
An hour in the first car, a normal bite
.
Not a normal pain.
A normal dog bite is very painful, but
is it a normal wound? Did it bite you
or what?
Put some ointment on it and that's it.
When should you perform a Rabbinic law?
A dog, a dog is a deep scratch. But if
there is blood, you can't perform a
blood ritual. If blood came out, put
some ointment on. No, not like that,
later is fine. But a snake is a snake;
it’s a venomous snake, and they are
not to be taken lightly. I once had a
situation where my nephew came to me on
Shabbat, and he said it was at home. He
saw snakes in the house. He said: "I
don't know, is it a viper or a harmless
snake?" I said: "I know, if it has a
triangular head it’s a viper, if not,
it’s..." I don't know. That’s about
the best you can do with snakes, you
want to analyze it? Have you heard
Rashi in the Torah? Why are you asking
questions? Take a stone, throw it at
its head, Then talk to me. First, kill
it. You're asking questions while in
danger.
That didn't happen in the city.
What, are there no snakes? Are they not
common? They are also found in gardens,
you have to be afraid in certain
seasons. In the spring season, when it
starts to get warm, that is a very
dangerous time. You must not let
children walk barefoot, gentlemen, they
will get hurt. Even sandals are not
safe; wear shoes, because you might
accidentally step on a snake. A snake
hides in the grass; children run around
in the same places, the places they
hide are where snakes hide too. So you
don't need to—well, you need to be
alert. Snakes are active in certain
seasons; they are mostly active in the
summer, in winter they sleep more, but
even on a warm winter day they suddenly
wake up, especially in the transition
months, Iyar and Sivan, the most severe
months. True, snakes are good, they eat
rodents and are beneficial, they are
good. But on the other hand, you don't
know them, you don't know exactly which
snake it is. Vipers are found in the
country even in cities, they are found
in...In villages, they cause more fear
on the ground floor, on the ground
floor it's more of a risk. Now,
scorpions, a bit like bees; there are
yellow scorpions and black scorpions,
the yellow one is more dangerous, the
black one less so. A bee, a bee sting
isn't so dangerous, even a wasp sting
is painful but not life-threatening,
but some people have sensitivities,
there are very sensitive people. People
feel a sting, maybe a wasp sting less
so, but what’s called a bee is
something else. It starts to swell, it
can be dangerous to fear, if there was
a swarm, a person approaches a swarm of
things by mistake, also things that are
a danger. Many stings are dangerous,
one wasp is not terrible, many stings
are dangerous. And bees are more
dangerous, they are more, also
poisonous. You don't know, for you
everything is in doubt. By the way, if
you go to the hospital it’s proper to
take and catch that animal, kill it, so
the hospital knows what it is about.
They recognize it, they know it’s
dangerous, what kind of creature it is;
they know what diseases are there, what
must be brought. If it’s a mouse bite
, kill the mouse and come with it to
the hospital.
Even on Shabbat?
Even on Shabbat.
Even on Shabbat? Yes, yes, on Shabbat,
because you can—for them it’s
dangerous—you can only if it’s an
animal that you know is healthy,
otherwise...you don't know. Is it a
high fever? Of course. A high fever? It
depends, a person knows himself, he
knows if it's the flu or a cold...he
knows the runny nose, the cough, the
fever, a high fever can be 39 or more,
he knows it’s a fever, what will the
hospital give him? Give him some
medicine for a week. At home, drink tea
every day. The same thing. For the flu,
there is no solution, these things can
lead to pneumonia. Therefore, be
careful, don't be careless. You young
people don't get vaccinated, only
adults? Now I reminded myself that I
need to get vaccinated. Take the winter
to get a flu shot, because in an adult
it complicates, leads to pneumonia,
that's already dangerous. But look at
the person, if he feels...Runny nose,
coughing a lot, even more when you feel
that all your lungs hurt—that’s
already dangerous. Then it’s worth
going to the hospital. But if it’s a
common cold, a person knows himself, he
knows he’ll sit at home for a few
days and it will pass, God willing. So
you need to use common sense for
everything. With kids, it’s very
common; the fever rises very quickly
and drops very quickly. Ah. If a little
one has a fever, don't run straight to
the hospital. A child has a little
fever; if the fever doesn't go down
after a few days, then you need to, but
if the fever goes down after two or
three days...If you see the fever is
high, over 40 degrees, even convulsions
, you need common sense. In children, a
normal fever is a standard phenomenon,
the fever goes up, the fever goes down.
Even adults have a fever from colds and
the like, that’s just standard stuff.
If you see that it’s not, that it’s
unusual, you should be concerned. Wait,
low fever sometimes happens with
pneumonia, a low fever. But usually
with pneumonia, you feel worse, your
lungs hurt a lot. Regarding the
accumulation of blood in the body, or
one with an infection. We are not
doctors; anything you see that is
unusual, not normal, sit and...A person
, a person knows themselves. There
isn't a person who hasn't had the flu a
few times in their life; they know what
the flu is, what something else is, if
it's a stomach ache, diarrhea, or if
it's already something else. Each
according to their own intuition. There
are those who run to the hospital for
every little thing, but regular people,
if it's a stomach ache, we lie down a
bit, eat for half a day, drink lukewarm
water, it will pass. If it doesn't go
away that day, then, well then...Use
common sense, that’s all. Every
person in the world has common sense;
they know, they feel if it’s not a
normal fever, if there are sudden
tremors, they feel it’s something
else, everyone can know based on their
experience.
Rabbi, what do you do with children? A
child doesn't know how to distinguish
every time.
A child doesn't know; you are the
father, you know how to distinguish. A
child gets a fever, and like that,
after a day it goes down. If it’s
been a few days, there are tremors, the
fever rises, yes, but young children
are sensitive to fever.
Also stomach aches, Rabbi. Because
there are stomach aches that can lead
to trouble. If it passes or doesn't
pass. Try to figure it out. If it is a
severe pain, you will say so. He cries
all night. And you calm him down, he
falls asleep afterwards. Gentlemen. If
a young mother doesn't know yet, then
she will ask, a more experienced mother
. You don't run to the hospital for
everything, even a sick day, every pain
a child has, you don't run to the
hospital unless there is something
unusual. One should be cautious,
sensitive, precise. A little bit of
something entering the body. A problem
with the eyes, that is dangerous. There
is a point here: our Sages saw a
connection between the eye and the
heart. I said, you said, it is a point
of law, and although doctors don't know
the connection, that doesn't mean that
because they don't know, it doesn't
exist. Especially since the eye itself
is certainly a risk of losing it, and
losing it is a matter of life and death
. But it could just be a severe
infection, and any infection in the
face is already close to the brain; it
could lead to an infection like
meningitis. Therefore, infections in
the head area are problematic. So, in
the eye itself, perhaps it's not such a
danger, but it is an infection. But
angina. Well, angina, whoever knows
themselves knows; you can gargle
something, and after two days it passes
. If it doesn't, it’s a more
developed infection, it’s already
close to the head, so you need to be
smart. All things require knowledge;
there are things a person knows will
pass, and there are things they see
aren't passing, that is something more
serious. How do we act? It’s hard,
there are knowledgeable doctors, even
on Shabbat. It is clear that
professionals decide; the doctor says
it's a danger, the patient is in danger
, what do you understand? And the
opposite: the patient says it's not
dangerous, the doctor says it's not
dangerous, but the person says, "I feel
that it is." There is a rule among the
sick, "the heart knows its own
bitterness": when a patient feels that
something is serious, even if it really
isn't, they feel it is serious, and
their feelings are taken into account.
Here we have seen that the patient's
consciousness has great significance.
Health and illness are very much tied
to the patient's mood; if the patient
feels that something is serious, or if
the patient treats it as not serious,
that itself is healing. This is the
power of healing. The body is in the
soul, today this science is known as
psychosomatic, meaning there is a
connection between body and soul that
our Sages knew. And what it says is to
create a spiritual and physical
connection, there is a connection
between spirit and body. Our Sages knew
this, they always knew this, and prayer
affects the mood, there is yes, for the
patient to feel that everything is
being done. The fact that the patient
feels it is healthy for them helps
their health; when a patient feels it
is serious, then also, if they are not
ill, that itself makes them ill.
Therefore, our Sages gave priority to
the patient's request. But again, if
the doctor says it's nothing and the
patient says it's dangerous, do not
listen to the patient over the doctor,
but rather, that the doctor is not
dangerous. Does the patient say it's
dangerous? True, it's not more
dangerous than the fact that the
patient themselves, will make
themselves ill. When they think they
are ill, it creates an atmosphere, and
then all body systems function in such
a way that they really become ill.
Therefore, we take the patient's will
into account, but not for everyone;
that is, the patient says: "It's
nothing, what do you understand?" The
doctor says it is dangerous, how is it
nothing? What is the level of trust in
non-Jewish doctors on Shabbat? True, in
the Gemara there was no trust in a
non-Jewish doctor, and the authorities
in recent generations also had a lack
of trust in non-observant doctors. They
felt in their speech that they might be
pretending, a gentile, what is a Jew?
There was a concern. Today, the medical
profession in the world is a profession
accepted as being neutral to all sorts
of other mental states. A doctor treats
every patient, whether they are an
enemy or a loved one; from their
perspective, it is a patient and they
treat the patient as professionally as
they can. They don't necessarily use
their heart, they only use their
profession. Most of the medicine in the
world is, built on professional doctors
. They are not angels, they are human
beings. Certainly, if an enemy patient
falls into the hands of a doctor, they
don't...it's clear, they know: my
profession now is to take care of their
body, and that is the doctor's duty and
it is accepted. Doctors treat people in
a professional way. A profession is a
profession where one rises above all
sorts of personal considerations and
says something important. Medicine,
this...it used to be less so, and
therefore there was concern. Since
medicine was not as precise a
profession as it is today, they were
wary of a non-Jewish doctor, or a
secular one. Today we are not concerned
, on the contrary. On the contrary, the
Jerusalem hospitals acted accordingly.
Jews on Erev Yom Kippur would want Dr.
Wallach, the founder of Shaare Zedek
Hospital, who was quite elderly. I
remember, I still saw him He was close
to 100. He would walk around the Shaare
Zedek hospital; you saw him, we saw him
praying in the synagogue. A doctor from
that generation. In Jerusalem, the
custom on Erev Yom Kippur was that
everyone would come; whoever was good
would not go to a secular doctor. He is
also a G-d-fearing doctor, also a
doctor. He gave an answer; the Rabbi
said it is forbidden, it is forbidden
to ask him. He is suspect; they say he
is biased, he is stringent on Yom
Kippur. Every secular doctor is
objective; the Rabbi decided he isn't
objective on Yom Kippur, he might be
too strict. That is how they knew in
Jerusalem that the Rabbi forbade it,
forbade going to him.
But the Rav of Brisk had many other
things; the Rav of Brisk had leniencies
in general, outside of the Rav’s,
leniencies that the public hadn't heard
of.
Not regarding the sick, they said
without "shiurim"(small measured
amounts) and...
True, the whole matter of "shiurim" is
a Brisk innovation because he was moved
by the simple fact that it’s just a
custom; the Brisker approach is good,
you see the difference between a
pregnant woman and doctors—these are
two different types of rulings. The
whole attitude toward a pregnant woman
is different than toward a regular sick
person.
Yes, Ah, So today, people are
accustomed to relying on a secular
doctor. If so, generally, a religious
doctor is preferable. Regardless, I
have...Specifically someone who is
religious understands better what needs
to be done. I once came to a religious
doctor, I was fasting. He sensed
something, he said: "I want to tell you
, it might be that for you, if I tell
you that...""...that you are forbidden
to fast, it will make you feel like a
truly sick person.""For you, since you
know you want to fast, if I tell you
that you are forbidden to fast, it will
give you...perhaps if I tell you to
fast...""...it’s not so serious, it
gives you a good feeling,""...a feeling
that you need to eat will worsen your
condition." A religious doctor who
understands the approaches of a
G-d-fearing patient.
But when they make general statements,
when they make general statements, they
have a rule: a pregnant woman is better
off not...
That's it. There are things doctors say
according to the fact that pregnant
women are fasting; doctors say pregnant
women should not fast. That is true,
that is how he learned medicine, that a
pregnant woman cannot, she needs to
maintain her health, to drink every day
, to eat every day. There is...The
fetus is in her womb and it is
sensitive; initially, it is very
sensitive to fluids and all other
things. Fasting is not healthy, that is
. That is the A-B-C of a doctor who
learned medicine properly; people come
and tell him, "We are Jews, we fast,"
and he asks, "Good, you keep Shabbat,
but in medical school I learned
otherwise." We have our own experience,
Israel says pregnant women have fasted
for generations, healthy pregnant women
. Heaven forbid, pregnant women who
have some issues certainly do not fast,
that is clear.
Even on Yom Kippur?
Even on Yom Kippur, it is difficult,
there is a bit of the issue of "shiurim
" and the like. What are just problems?
An unusual pregnancy. Does a pregnant
woman know if she is healthy or not
healthy? A pregnant woman feels
everything is fine, she has no strange
sensations. She feels she is pregnant,
yes, certainly, it is not...she is not
like a normal woman, she knows she is
pregnant. But if she is well, walking,
working? What does she need? She needs
more rest, she needs more suitable food
, but she feels good. Fasting. Although
it is recommended as much as possible
to be in the synagogue, a cooler place,
it could be [in the] synagogue for the
duration of the day, it is better to be
in the synagogue or at home, it is a
protected place. And this...This is the
instruction for a healthy pregnant
woman. A pregnant woman who has other
problems, another attempt or if there
is an experience from previous nights,
or she has a lot of vomiting, she has a
lot of...there are cases where she
feels, feels the fetus, already, its
movements are not different. A woman
knows there are things she feels that
are not normal. We recognize that there
are truly exceptions; we say at least
start in portions, and if that is not
enough, then drink and eat. There is an
exception in Jerusalem, there was a
very great rabbi among the Jerusalem
decisors, he was strict with pregnant
women fasting, something happened to
him once that he saw a pregnant woman
and she passed away.
She passed away, or she passed away, it
happened, he said from here. I said to
him: I am not allowed to show people [
like that], But this is Jerusalem, that
he This is a personal story. It
happened once. Maybe he truly needed to
be more careful there; she felt a bit
unwell, he thought he should have given
her, yes, allowed her to eat. He, he
was stringent and he learned from it,
but we know from experience: a healthy
woman can fast. On the condition that
she is in the synagogue, just maybe I
said at the beginning, at the end, she
should rest if she feels unwell. What
does it mean, unwell? Any fast, any
fast is not good, but being unwell is
worse than fasting, because a woman
knows, she didn't come to a wedding,
she has never fasted. She fasts the
regular fasts, and she knows when it is
the difficulty of a fast, and when it
is something else. When she sees it is
something else, specifically feels
dizzy or black before the eyes, her
husband...she is very, very pregnant,
not pregnant, everyone is very pregnant
, stop, yes. What is the practical
difference if it is overridden?
According to the Rambam, Shabbat is
overridden, but there are those who
disagree with the Rambam, they say it
is merely pushed aside. Here there is a
distinction, Even if it is pushed aside
, not everything is permitted.
Something that is not necessary, no, no
. There is a Gemara in the tractate,
the issue of "permitted" also applies
to impurity, to impurity in the public.
If there are impure priests, impure
priests working in the Temple, [it is]
permitted for the public, so if it is "
permitted", So uh It is more
permissible. If impurity is [only]
pushed aside, then only if it is a
pressing need. Even there, also
regarding "permitted," there is a house
of the father, There is an impure
father's house, another pure father's
house, it is the same watch, there is a
pure father's house, why do you need,
why? If there is a pure father's house,
who works if it is "permitted" in
public? Even if it is "permitted," you
have one father's house in the world,
you need the impure father's house, So
it is not true that everything is "
permitted." Limited, they need, need,
need, they also need heating, they need
. So, the boundary is very vague,
bottom line. What. Also here there is a
change, it is very fundamental, he is
very expansive in Halacha on this issue
. He permits, he relies on the Rambam
regarding heating, And he permitted
lighting [a fire] for a sick person
even in Tammuz, In Tammuz, Tammuz, now
this year, it is Tammuz.
We are still in the year, meaning the
last month, you know, the past month
was one of the hottest on Earth.
Something is happening, although the
summer, until the last month, was quite
a comfortable summer. Last month
something happened, a month, But it’s
a warm summer, a summer that is a
summer. So now, hope that...They don't
see weather, it will be hotter. So the
...To light a heater in Tammuz? It's
possible it's hot, what is needed? But
it adds, the law...It is permitted. As
the Magen Avraham says, he permits a
sick person who needs it to light a
heater in Tammuz, so a heater is also
heating because it is needed. Needed it
, Right? Whoever is not sick, not sick,
needs it, it gives him more heat, feels
better, feels that it finishes the
whole issue. Where did it disappear,
where are the boundaries? Not clear.
Halacha is very expansive, as the Magen
Avraham says, exactly how many...So he
said that it turns out there is almost
no practical difference, even for him.
But an air conditioner on Shabbat in a
car.
On Shabbat.
Air conditioner in a car.
They need to travel, people, what about
in the car?
Leading...
Why need to travel? So to travel? Is it
permitted by a Jew, or by a non-Jew?
For Shabbat, even by non-Jews, small
ones? Sick, the sick person himself is
sick, it is better that he, that he,
that he shouldn't do it himself, he is
sick, but definitely the Halacha is
that it depends on the "Gedolei Yisrael
." There are illnesses, the authorities
...what is "Gedolei Yisrael"? Are "
Gedolei Yisrael" meaning the great
sages of Israel? Or the great ones, not
the small ones, the great ones? A bit
strange, sounds like "Gedolei Yisrael"
is actually specifically the great ones
of Israel, the Torah scholars? That is
to say, a Torah scholar there? There is
a sick person that this travel is for,
so if you do it, you say to a Rabbi
that he should talk? That's why I said,
there are Rabbis who act [a certain way
], it solves their problem, as if you
know, the Rabbi acts, needs, for us,
needs an ambulance driver, all. Shabbat
, Gedolei Yisrael. This specific point
is not analyzed in Halacha. It is true
that until today they do it, they only
understood Chazal to say the opposite:
that one who violates Shabbat while
doing it out of knowledge of Halacha,
does it better for the sake of Heaven.
Knowing: I know that it is forbidden,
violation of Shabbat, more aware of the
severity, and on the other hand,
knowing that I am now acting for the
sake of Heaven. This lightens, this
lightens the transgression. A person
who thinks Shabbat is permitted to be
violated, he is violating Shabbat, so a
wise man knows that he is not violating
Shabbat. I would say more here, that it
turns it into a kind of work that is
done by itself; He is not doing a
prohibited act on Shabbat, Now using
the phrasing this way, only to
emphasize that it gives a different
status to the whole of Shabbat.
You don't say that when you want to
save a non-Jew, when you want to save a
Gentile.
A Jew is preferred over a non-Jew.
No, when you save a Gentile, you say, "
This is a Gentile who we are saving,"
so yes, that is said. Because there,
you don't really want to save him; you
only want to because it won't cause
animosity and the like.
So the Rabbi applies it to someone who
basically isn't interested in the
patient himself, he isn't a relative,
but the Rabbi says it’s the same
principle.
I say it’s a bit similar, yes. Even
though a person who desecrates the
Sabbath for a Jew, he wants...
He wants to...
To heal him, that is, it’s for his
body, the Rabbi says that because he is
doing it for Heaven’s sake, it
softens the...the action.
Is it permissible to desecrate the
Sabbath through a non-Jew, if the
non-Jew asks for a high price? Medicine
costs money. The Halachic authorities
permitted the doctor, The more expert,
the more experienced he is, he takes
the money. It’s not, it’s not, it
doesn't matter. He is a professional,
he studied a lot, He has a lot of
experience, therefore he charges more
money. It is known, the greater the
doctor, the more money he takes; it is
legal, it is allowed. That is this
profession, a profession that a person
works at, because it requires expertise
. When you are an expert, you take the
money. A non-Jew can also ask for money
, like any paid service, but if he asks
for a higher price than usual because
it is the Sabbath, If he is more
expensive than a Jew, It is better to
prefer a Jew. Both are equal, but he is
more expensive, charging more than is
customary. If he exploits the Sabbath,
then he is even worse, that is
certainly not permissible.
Rabbi, what if the Jew lives further
away? If I have to travel to them, but
the Jew is further away?
Is it permitted to desecrate the
Sabbath and drive further for that?
Which is better, going to the near one
or the far one? But if the near one is
more expensive than usual, go to the
far one. Ah, a small point about
doctors’ shifts; this is a very
serious problem. A shift starts,
usually in a hospital it goes in 300s,
from seven to seven, evening shift from
seven in the evening, morning to
morning, night shift.
Three, no.
Depends if it’s doctors or others.
Doctors are 12 hours, no, this is...
From seven to three, from seven to
three.
Are these doctors or nurses?
From seven to three, to seven, nurses
to three.
At night, yes, at night it's long, from
seven to seven, night from 11 to seven.
They say nurses are three shifts and
doctors are two shifts, that is...
It could be, it could be three shifts.
Usually it is: 7 in the morning to 3 in
the afternoon, 3 in the afternoon to 11
at night, and from night to 7 in the
morning—that, that is the division.
So the start of the shift is hard in
the evening. Now, it is certainly
possible to arrive on Friday in the
winter. I heard, on Friday evening I
can get here before five, so there are
two hours—no, you see, Does that
cause you a problem? Yes, those same
two hours, those two hours at home we
do Kiddush, Sabbath, the atmosphere of
the Sabbath, Shorten it before the
Sabbath. Right, a hospital, will you do
Kiddush there too? A hospital isn't, it
isn't home, it isn't a home environment
with kids, but a Shabbat table, sit,
Shabbat, Shabbat...But it's because she
wants to be, Oneg Shabbat is an
important mitzvah. There, Sabbath, not
on, on Friday, on Friday hour, and...A
hospital until the shift ends. Here we
do, when a stranger says it, it’s
part of the...the point that our Sages
emphasize, not to cause someone to come
. If a nurse knows That every–I’ll
tell you that she has it twice anyway,
every second or third Shabbat, she has
this problem that she has to be away
from the Shabbat evening Kiddush, it
will weaken the motivation to be in
this profession. So, so to not cause
them to come now, they are considerate
of them, but only rabbinic labor, yes.
Core What would be forbidden on Shabbat
? That's one [done by] a non-Jew,
it’s permitted. Here, here the
problems start, Because a shift is
stuck for everyone, all the nurses. I
had a deep argument, the hospital
director was right about the year-round
scheduling.
There are many religious doctors and
many religious nurses. I talked to the
hospital director, I said: "Listen,
religious people are leaving." The
problem is they can only come by
driving. There you have the scheduling.
Get a non-Jew. He says: "I don't hire
non-Jews, I hire whoever I want." I
said: "No, hire Druze, immigrants,
immigrants from Russia, non-Jews, Arabs
that you can [hire], whom the Shin Bet
knows aren't agents." There are
non-Jews in your hospital, many
non-Jewish workers. "No, I’m not
willing to look for more," I wanted a
deep argument with him.
So what did they do?
He wasn't willing.
No, what did the doctors and nurses do,
were they like that? I don’t know how
many nurses asked me; every time I went
out and couldn't do it, dozens of times
they talked, I was with nurses, I said
[use] non-Jews.
Bicycles.
Regular bicycles, not regular bicycles.
But if they live, say, Givat Shmuel,
mother of..., to the daughter,
traveling from Givat Shmuel to the
hospital by bicycle is dangerous. True,
it’s a road there, it’s not as it
was, it’s narrow, it’s not...
Not like in a car, you have to get off
a bit. I, I’m not saying it's the
main point, I said what's dangerous,
with [traffic] signs, nothing happens.
"Ah, you’re from the rabbis, are you
here to sue me?" I said: "Please, I’m
at the hospital, the scheduling is the
rabbi's [business], why are you
pressuring me?" Pressure the hospital.
Every time, dozens of times I talked
about it, every time it’s hard. I
said if she lives nearby then by
bicycle, also in Gush Dan, still by
bicycle she can.
Arrive.
But if she lives far away, then the
rabbi would tell her to move house, so
I have no solution for you.
So switch hospitals, the rabbi would
rule.
What?
Switch hospitals, she must.
Yes, there's no choice, or else come
there early, that’s...A Jew is
forbidden.
If there is no hospital in the area,
then do not work. A solution through a
gentile, that is the solution; there is
no permission for soldiers on Shabbat.
Now, I am not saying there are no
religious nurses or religious doctors;
visiting the sick comes up, I need to
...I don't have to be there on Friday,
I can...do they need me there? Right, I
will make Kiddush and act on my own. We
have strength, we have...Doctors,
nurses, there are rabbis who said it is
permitted, who said it is permitted in
an exceptional case. Example: The
hospital, that a gentile driver will
come to pick [me] up, that...They are
so aware of the gravity of the matter,
a Jewish driver arrived—what is this?
Do not travel with him! I have a shift,
they are waiting, should I not come?
Whether a doctor or a nurse, everyone
...which...The previous shift, a shift
and she is in distress, it is lacking,
a nurse is missing, nurses are working,
working for the sake of the soul. An
exceptional case: When you ordered a
gentile and a Jew arrived, travel with
him. But because you have no other
choice, you have to get to the hospital
. But initially, the solution is only
through a gentile.
Is an electric vehicle like a gentile?
Is an electric vehicle like a gentile,
if it comes to that—yes, it is like a
gentile, but the Rabbi...
Although a gentile is preferred here,
forgive me, and this requires its own
discussion. A gentile is "Amira,""Amira
"(asking a gentile) is explicitly
mentioned in Eruvin. "Amira" is "Amira,
" asking a gentile is easier. What a
Jew does as his own labor, [it is]
forbidden on Shabbat. An electric
vehicle, only its activation has a
rabbinical issue. Afterward, the
electricity is already working as we
said before, so it is not significant.
You have one rabbinical labor, a
gentile driving is...every single thing
is a Shabbat violation, it's like a
gasoline car, maybe? Right, a gentile?
But this gentile that you are asking,
you tell him to do one labor, you are
telling him to do a million
Torah-prohibited labors, instead of one
.
What is better, that we tell a gentile
to do a million Torah labors—that is
done by asking, it's easier—or that a
Jew...Only its activation is rabbinical
and after that, it is not. What is
better?
We need to ensure that all gentiles—
we need to ensure that all gentiles
have an electric vehicle. That way you
won't need [to worry], only in the
hospital it will be allowed, yes, yes,
yes, and then the permission becomes
very wide, people start driving.
Rabbi, but a woman who lives a
half-hour walk away, she is forbidden
to use an electric vehicle. She needs a
regular bicycle, a half-hour walk
depends on the weather in the winter,
in this heat, on a hot day. Back, back,
back, only if they ask, it reaches you.
They need me there, even there, only
when an unforeseen incident occurred,
but not initially. There were periods
because...That they feared they would
lose [their jobs], that it is very
important to have gentiles, so they
permitted them to do it themselves. But
the violation is not for one Shabbat,
but a permanent violation. Gentlemen,
here it was...An occasional incident,
you want to arrive and here...It has
been like this for years. I cannot say
this is a one-time occurrence. I said:
I apologize, find a gentile for my sick
patients.
Thai, all sorts of gentiles, and
there's a shortage of gentiles. There
is also, in Ariel one can find many
Russian gentiles. Should she try to
swap a shift with a non-religious woman
, what does the Rabbi...?
I am not saying it is forbidden, but it
is not a solution. You almost benefit,
Sabbath has begun. If you do this, you
will find a solution. You will do as we
said: this is a gentile doing it for
Heaven's sake, preventing a Torah
prohibition. One says: You benefit from
the fact that I swapped what the Rabbi
said earlier, it is forbidden, because
the Rabbi said that a religious woman
does it for Heaven's sake. But when it
happens suddenly, I say: You cannot
change it, you have to go home.
A Jew.
A Jew, now it's 6:00 AM, the shift
starts at seven, the previous nurse
will leave if I don't arrive. A nurse
will be missing, in the hospital one
missing nurse in the ward is very
significant. It is significant. It is a
life-threatening situation, certainly.
But it is better if she does it,
because she does it for Heaven's sake.
So it is better? Or is it not that
important? Or is it precisely because
of Heaven's sake that she will do it
better than a gentile? Will the Jew not
do it for Heaven's sake? Yes, True. We
are not saying that because she is
religious, she will take the whole
Sabbath, no. You have to follow the
other path, but not swap from the start
. No, So this issue, this one, is it
correct according to one of the
opinions? Someone wrote, a Rabbi wrote,
that a Jew is [permitted] to...
He doesn't say that, I have seen it, I
know it, he doesn't say exactly what,
but Nishmat Avraham says that in
paragraph B he says only a gentile.
In Shmirat [Shabbat] it is not written
like that, it says nothing, it just
says a nurse should remain on the
Sabbath eve, he doesn't say how, but it
implies a gentile. Maybe it is
permitted there because of exceptions.
Rabbi, if the permission is because
people won't come to this job, it is
better that [in] the week...
They are police officers, it is a
bigger problem, police officers who are
gentiles, the police cannot work there.
Arabs are good in a certain place, but
it is not good if there are too many.
Too many. Also the police cannot work
based on identifying a Jew or a gentile
—that is a serious problem. The army
also cannot work, So what? Soldiers are
soldiers. True, there was a battalion,
it was an exceptional battalion. It is
possible there were also Jews, most of
the battalion were Bedouins, but they
are there. The army recruits Arab
people, not that they are Arabs, but
those who volunteer. Now, others
volunteer. The army cannot tell you:
You are a Jew, you are a gentile, do
this, do that. The army cannot act like
that.
The army is less so, the police are not
.
The police as well, it is...
No, I'm saying the army is less like
one has to drive on the Sabbath, the
police are...
Regarding swapping shifts in the police
, I told the police Rabbi, speak with
the transport officer to arrange in
advance only electric vehicles.
That the police will have electric
vehicles. That urgent needs can be met,
but there an administrative way that
brings police to work that that So that
is a certain legal solution
So what do they do
But this way, but police, if a person
every Sabbath every Sabbath police will
come and He will have no self-respect
left, imagine that, so there won't be a
policeman
So what there can be done
This is the hard question I struggle
with: Is it because...like this, no,
there are no police, so, ah, should we
permit driving on Sabbath? Again we
returned: the solution of...not every
vehicle, one must buy it, the cheapest
is 150 thousand shekels, not every Jew
who is a policeman can afford such an
electric car, now they can lower his.
Gentlemen, there are questions here
that have no solution. The instructions
are clear, so why are there so many
problems, Therefore the electric car is
not...it's a solution only at the end
of time, a Jew who is poor has no
solution.
Biblically forbidden
Biblically, even though it is
preferable in terms of the Sabbath,
that pressing the pedal is no longer
just one, there is one prohibited act
of igniting
And not every press
Pressing, there is no need in a
gasoline engine vehicle, every press is
a biblical prohibition